In this special episode, I sit down with my friend Frannie Wilson to interview her for my new book "The Ladders of Wealth. We explore her journey of running Ampersand Studios for over 16 years and how she’s reinventing her business after buying out her longtime partner.Instead of having the conversation over a cup of coffee, we decided to record one in the studio instead. We dive into what it takes to scale an agency without burning out, why delegating fulfillment is critical, and how Frannie is using systems, subcontractors, and culture-building to position her team for growth. She shares lessons from managing people, creating replicable offers, and handling the challenges of sales, client retention, and leadership.If you’re navigating the leap from founder-doer to CEO—or building a creative agency that lasts—this episode is packed with insights.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:15 Frannie’s 16-year journey with Ampersand04:00 Buying out her business partner and reinventing07:05 Balancing recurring revenue and one-off projects10:30 Delegating fulfillment and avoiding bottlenecks13:55 Building systems and hiring contractors17:30 The role of values and culture in small teams22:10 Lessons from managing people and avoiding drama27:30 Productizing services vs. custom work33:00 Smarter hiring with test projects39:30 Landing and qualifying clients the right way52:30 Retaining clients and handling tough situations59:45 Final reflections and adviceIf you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/showFollow Nathan:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarryLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarryX: https://twitter.com/nathanbarryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshowWebsite: https://nathanbarry.comFollow Frannie:Instagram (personal): https://www.instagram.com/frannie_packLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frannie-wilsonAmpersand Studios (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/ampersand_studiosAmpersand Studios (Website): https://ampersand-studios.comFeatured in this episode:Ampersand Studios (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/ampersand_studiosAmpersand Studios: https://ampersand-studios.com/

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