Erin Patchell: Welcome to Weirdos in the Workplace, the podcast where we celebrate authenticity, transparency, passion, and purpose in our world of work. Today we have Aaron Arkin with us. Say hello, Aaron. Aaron Arkin: Hello. Erin Patchell: Aaron is the Director of Insomnia services with Careica Health. He's also a registered psychotherapist and registered polysomnographic technologist and focuses on behavioral sleep issues such as insomnia. Aaron uses a number of tools, including cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT to help people overcome sleep problems. And Aaron, this couldn't come at a better time because I'm exhausted and I haven't been sleeping well these last couple of weeks. Definitely not as well as I should be, and so this conversation couldn't be more timely. Aaron Arkin: Good. Well, I'm glad to help. I know a guy. Erin Patchell: You know a guy? Yeah, you know a few guys, probably, and gals. And I know this isn't just a relevant conversation for me, but definitely as well for a lot of the other folks who listen to this podcast, who are regular folks, entrepreneurs, business leaders, it doesn't seem to matter. I think we all have an enormous amount of stress on our plates these days, and getting good sleep is, I think, the foundation, and I think you probably agree. [Intro Music] Aaron Arkin: Wouldn't argue with that. And one thing that I always say about sleep is that there really isn't a population that's exempt from having sleep issues. There's no age, gender, socioeconomic status, profession that's going to prevent you from having an issue with your sleep at some point in your life. So it is really quite universal, and everybody sleeps, and many people at times have problems with their sleep, and often they go unrecognized, or at least untreated. Erin Patchell: Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about yourself and something that I can't find on your resume or in your bio. Aaron Arkin: Sure. I've been in the industry for quite a while. I started down this road as an academic. I was a psychology major, and I signed up for a third year psychology course in research in psychology, where they would pair you with a professor and you would learn how to go about doing psychological research. And the professor who they paired me with and this was at Trent University when I was an undergraduate there, studied the relationship of sleep to learning in memory, something I knew nothing about and I found so fascinating. I read everything I possibly could, and I learned so much about this mystical world of sleep and its relationship to memory. And ever since then, I've been hooked.  I finished a fourth year thesis. I found work in my field fairly quickly after I graduated, and I've been pretty immersed in the field since 1998 now. Erin Patchell: Yeah, I can tell that you have a real passion for this topic. Aaron Arkin: It's interesting. It's interesting to me, but it's also pretty universal. As I had mentioned earlier, I can't go to a social event without somebody finding out what it is that I do professionally that doesn't bombard me with questions. And I love talking about it because part of my mandate is to educate and make people aware of the issues of sleep and how we can help people sleep better. Erin Patchell: Yeah, absolutely. I always feel bad being that person when I'm at networking events and I find there's a doctor or someone like yourself who's an expert and you just can't help it going down that rabbit hole. But... glad to hear that you're not totally opposed to it. Aaron Arkin: Absolutely not. No, I enjoy doing it. It just makes me better at talking about it. And if it makes the difference with somebody learning a little more about their sleep and how they can help sleep better to improve their daytime performance, then why not? Erin Patchell: Awesome. So what are the typical challenges that you see for people like me. Like regular folks or people who think they're regular folks. What kind of work do you do on the regular? Aaron Arkin: So I find the challenges are twofold. So there's almost like a systemic challenge where people that I work with or people who have discussions about sleep, most people don't really and I don't want this to sound with any conceit, but people don't really know very much about their sleep. They go into a bed, they close their eyes, hopefully something happens, and then seven or 8 hours later they get out of bed and off they go. Erin Patchell: Yeah, we're generally unconscious, literally. Aaron Arkin: Exactly. Well, conscious is a whole different can of worms which we'll talk about. Erin Patchell: Fair enough. Aaron Arkin: But the more that you can educate people about the basics of sleep and the processes that affect our sleep and how much you should be getting and what influences our sleep, the more you can explain people to people how it works. The more of an understanding that they have and the easier it is for them to be able to make some of the positive changes in this behavior. So conceptually, that's one of the challenges that I meet with people. And then at a more personal level, one of the things that I find, or at least some of the most common symptoms of people that I work with are people who either have a hard time falling asleep, returning to sleep after an awakening and maintaining their sleep, or ruminating thoughts towards sleep. They lie in bed and they can't turn their mind off or it's after dinner, it's 8-9:00. They're getting a little bit anxious about having to go to sleep if they know they're not going to sleep well. Those are some of the common complaints of people that I see. Erin Patchell: Yeah, it's true that when you get into that vicious cycle, there can be a lot of emotions around that for sure. And a lot of anxiety. I've definitely felt that myself, where it's like a trepidation, like am I going to sleep tonight? Is something going to wake me up? For sure. And the older I get and with changing hormones and things like that as well. I think that there's a lot of factors... children and all the things that we deal with. Aaron Arkin: Certainly, and that's very common. And that's another thing that some people aren't necessarily aware of, is how common some of these sleep issues are. People find that they have this problem and that they're unique or that they're on this island and no one else has these same issues and no one can really help them with it. But that's really far from the truth. Not to brag, although I'm going to brag. I'm an excellent sleeper. I crawl into bed, I lie down, I'm very comfortable, I don't have fancy pillows or fancy sheets or anything like that. And I drift off to sleep fairly effortlessly. And that effortlessness is what people should be experiencing with their sleep. They shouldn't have to try to sleep. The harder you try to do it, the more challenging it becomes. It should be effortless, and that's how we would be receiving the benefit of the behavior of sleep. Erin Patchell: So, how does the quality of sleep I mean, our podcast is generally about leadership development, learning, workplace challenges. So, how does the quality of your sleep influence your ability to perform, learn, adapt or thrive in a professional environment, would you say? Aaron Arkin: I think it's probably, if not the most important component of being able to do so. Because if you don't sleep well, if you have poor quality sleep, the issues you'll experience during the day are deficits in mood and performance. And it's those deficits that make it more challenging for you to be at your best during the day. One of the functions of sleep is to do exactly that is to fuel your daytime performance. You're supposed to get good quality sleep at night, which leads to improved daytime performance. So you can be the best that you can be, tire yourself out, crawl into bed, get some sleep, get some good quality sleep, and do the same thing over again the next day as consistently as you possibly can. It's the sleep that fuels that daytime performance. And when you don't sleep well or you don't achieve that good quality sleep, that's where you'll see the deficits in the performance and in the mood the next day. Erin Patchell: Do you typically get a lot of professionals who are working with you? Aaron Arkin: It's really hard to say. It does run the gamut. I've seen clinical psychology professors that will seek my help, or physicians. So again, there's no real pigeonhole in terms of who it is that comes to see me. I do find that my client base does skew a little more female than male. Whether that's because females are more likely to seek help for some of these issues, perhaps I'm not entirely certain. But there's no again age, socioeconomic status, profession, stage of life where someone is that I tend to see most often. I do see a lot of younger mothers with younger children as often as I'll see retired folks, as much as I'll see 20 somethings that are either between jobs or finish school and just starting a career and are having to adjust. So again, there's really no one who's exempt. Erin Patchell: I wonder what prevents somebody or why don't we talk about this more? When I had the idea to have you on the podcast, it was because I hardly ever hear about this when it comes to in other podcasts, in conversation, in the trainings that we do in corporate training, rarely do we talk about sleep and it feels like I think you said earlier, it feels like it's such an important building block. Maybe it's the building block. So why do you think we don't talk about it? Aaron Arkin: A tough question to answer, but it's often something that we don't necessarily pay much attention to or if we find that we're deficient in it, it's not necessarily something that we seek help for. Oftentimes you'll hear about the three pillars of health being diet, exercise and sleep. And most people are familiar enough with how to eat properly. No one's eating a cheeseburger thinking that they're eating really well. Most people understand the importance of physical activity and to be fit and to be active. But that third pillar, the sleep, seems to really get swept under the rug a little bit and slowly but surely I think we're starting to see an increase in the intention to people recognizing their sleep and part of that is due to technology. But I think the more that we can start to look at this, especially from a primary care level, the more we'll start to see some increased benefits from it. Erin Patchell: I can kind of understand if someone has sleep apnea that that might be more difficult to understand or unravel or to diagnose potentially. But something like insomnia, which is where you work, it seems like you kind of have insomnia or you don't have insomnia to me. Is that true? Wouldn't you be able to self identify that a little bit more easily? Aaron Arkin: True. One of the clinical definitions of insomnia is someone who has difficulty falling asleep, staying asleep, returning to sleep three times a week for a period of three months. Interesting, which is a fairly vague description or definition. I'm of the mindset that if you don't feel that you're sleeping well or if you feel that you don't see the benefit of a night of sleep and you're dragging during the day, you're not at your best during the day. That's reason enough. You don't necessarily need a clinical diagnosis to decide to get in shape and join a gym. You don't necessarily need a clinical diagnosis to decide, you know what, I'm going to eat more healthily and I'm going to see a nutritionist or dietitian. Same reason if you don't think that you're sleeping well, that should be reason enough to seek help. Something like obstructive sleep apnea, which is a physical sleep disorder. There's some great ways to diagnose it fairly simply done. There's some fantastic treatments out there, and we can see the difference with that fairly quickly. With something like insomnia, which is more of a behavioral sleep issue, I can't flick a switch or push a button and make it better tomorrow. It takes a little bit of time, but through the programs that we put together, the idea is not only to help your sleep in the short term, but to educate people on the strategies and techniques and skills so they can utilize those same strategies six months, five years down the road if they have similar issues that might come up again. Erin Patchell: I mean, by that definition, I bet there are so many people listening to this, thinking I meet those criteria and I would never have considered myself to have insomnia. I'm probably up there for sure. It never would have crossed my mind. Aaron Arkin: The numbers are pretty stark. A study came out from the Strong researchers in Quebec who determined that upwards of 60% of people who visit their family doctor display signs or symptoms of having insomnia. Part of the challenge is having our physicians ask those questions. Not only that, but also knowing how to treat them properly. Because prescribing somebody a sleeping pill isn't the recommended treatment for people that are having these issues. And that treatment is something called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. And one of the problems with that is that there's so few practitioners across this country and across the world that it's really harder to be able to seek treatment. So part of what it is that I'm doing professionally is how we can help educate these people and bring the information out to the masses so we can offer some of these treatments and have treatments that are available at a larger scale to more people, as opposed to just simple one on one therapy. Erin Patchell: Yeah, absolutely. I have taken psychotherapy, I've taken CBT and some other modalities, and I never would have thought to use this. I'm not a professional here, but as a regular person, as a regular person, I never would have thought that CBT could be used for this issue. So, I'm sure that I'm not the only one out there, right? Aaron Arkin: I would agree with that wholeheartedly. There's so many people exactly like you, regular person, who has sleep issues now and again, or maybe somewhat chronically, that would benefit from the cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia specifically. And because it's a behavioral issue, it's the cognition. So your thoughts and your behaviors, which are your actions, which need to be identified, challenged, modified, and then made more adaptable to help you improve your sleep. Erin Patchell: Oh, yeah. And I mean, I have ADHD, right? And so for me, creating habits is challenging at best, especially like, sleep habits. So for me, and probably many of the other folks who are listening because I do tend to attract other people who happen to have ADHD. We don't want to sleep because it's not fun. It's a lot more fun to read or to get zoned into something, right. So you're totally bang on, I think, when you say it's a behavioral issue and it's something that we do have some control over, whether we like it or not. Aaron Arkin: Certainly. And with sleep, to some degree, there's almost a bit of a built in biofeedback mechanism where if you're trying to lose weight, you do the behaviors. You hop on a scale, and you see that number. If you're trying to get in shape, you go to the gym, you run cardio machines, or you lift weights, and you can see the benefit, your clothing fits you differently. With sleep, that benefit isn't necessarily so physical. It's really behavioral and mood and performance. So if you find that you go through the sleep interventions and you have more energy during the day, and maybe you're a little less irritable to your partner or your family or you're not as forgetful as maybe you once were, that's that biofeedback. And the more that you do it, the more you start to see that benefit, the better you feel and can reduce some other behavioral symptoms too. Erin Patchell: Yeah, absolutely. And all those things that you just said are very relevant in the workplace as well. Yeah, absolutely. Aaron Arkin: One of the benefits of sleep, of course, as I mentioned, is mood and performance. And if you're a better worker and you're a better employee and you're a better coworker, there's benefits to that as well. Erin Patchell: Definitely. Um, so other than, obviously, the daytime tiredness and exhaustion, you knowing that I know that I've stayed up too late one night or whatever, and that I might be tired the next day, that kind of thing, what are the other behaviors, the common behaviors that you just touched on a little bit? If we could go a little deeper into that, I'm curious. What are the other behaviors that you commonly see when folks are not sleeping well? Aaron Arkin: Sure. So one of the questions I ask on my assessment is, does difficulty sleeping ever impact your mood or performance the next day? And some of the common answers I receive, the number one answer I get to that question is irritability. There's irritable the next day. They're short tempered. They yell at people in traffic or any of those sorts of things. So irritability forgetfulness brain fog, less sharp. So those are some of the symptoms. And to me, it's always been an interesting dichotomy where you have people who have a physical sleep disorder. The snoring, sleep apnea folks, they don't get a lot of sleep at night. During the day, they're exhausted. They're fighting to stay awake. They're falling asleep in inappropriate circumstances. And then we have the behavioral sleep people, the people who are suffering from insomnia where similar reduced amounts of sleep, but their daytime symptoms are entirely different. It's not so much that they're sleepy, they're not themselves, they're less sharp, they're forgetful, they're irritable, they're cranky. They're not really a whole lot of fun to be around. So to me, that's always been an interesting dichotomy. Two different people, similar reduced amounts of sleep, but their daytime symptomology is entirely different. And of course, the treatment for these disorders is different as well. Erin Patchell: Yeah. So, I mean, I'm imagining that I'm at a leadership level in an organization, and we're being taught to create cultures that are very empathetic with high emotional intelligence, with high customer excellence, and these are all very emotional sorts of behaviors. We've got to be able to control our feelings in the workplace and be able to reach out and pay attention to people and be connected all the time. Right. And I can imagine how this sort of having some kind of sleep issue like insomnia might be even more of a concern now than it was like 20 years ago in the workplace because of the behaviors we're expected to see now. Aaron Arkin: Certainly, and that's at every level of an organization from an entry level position to the C suite, folks. Because people who are tasked to be making these important company wide decisions, if they're poorly rested or if they're not receiving the benefit of a good night of sleep and it impairs their decision making abilities, then that can have effects completely down the line as well. And that goes in any industry. Look at healthcare. You don't want to have to god forbid, you have to go to an emergency room or have surgery, but you want to make sure that the person who's making that life or death decision isn't doing it because they've been up for 24 hours and their decisions might be a little clouded. You want to make sure that your surgeon is well rested or that that Er doctor has had a really good night of sleep, so they can make the most educated decisions that they possibly can. Erin Patchell: Absolutely. I mean, you brought up ER doctors. There's a chronic... it's a workforce planning... The expectations for doctors are so strange, especially when it comes to shift work and sleeping and long shifts. And this doesn't just go for doctors. There's probably lots of other types of roles as well that are similar, like nurses and other types of shift workers. But how can we have an expectation of performance when simultaneously we're expecting them to work nights, weekends, twelve hour shifts, et cetera? I don't know. Aaron Arkin: You're absolutely right that the research consistently shows the negative effects of those that are working shift workers. And there's so many professions where shift work is involved in very important decisions that really can have a lot of there's a lot of possibility for mistakes to take place. And you look at the healthcare community with nurses or physicians that are working 24 hours. Look at first responders like the police officers and firefighters. You don't want these people who are working shift work who are either sleep deprived or have been up for 23 hours putting out the fire in your home or making a life and death decision to your health. So shift work again, time and time again has been shown to not necessarily be the best way to manage things. Erin Patchell: Right? And obviously in some cases you don't have a choice. And probably I expect they're doing as best as they can given all the variables. I would hope. Yeah. Aaron Arkin: Not that I anticipate we're going to eliminate shift work, but these are all sorts of individuals who would benefit from some sleep education or even some cognitive therapy to help understand how they can manage their sleep when they need to undergo these different types of changes with their routines. Erin Patchell: Yeah, absolutely. It's like, what do you have control over and how can we maximize that opportunity? Kind of thing. Yeah, for sure. So I mean, as an employer, am I thinking about people's sleep? I am. One of the first questions I always asked my team was how are you doing? Like, how are you sleeping? Because I think that it's really important and sometimes it's easier to coach people than it is to do it yourself. But I know I think about that. I'm not sure how much other employers think about that and I know we should be thinking about that, but what else can we do besides asking that question how are you doing? How's your sleep? Is there anything else? Aaron Arkin: You're right. Employees are starting to pay attention to it a little bit. But part of it is really making sure that there's initiatives in place for people that are having those struggles. Whether that's an EAP program, whether that's something within your healthcare benefits that you have access to some sort of sleep programming or sleep testing or sleep therapy. Just making the awareness there. So people and individuals will have access to some of these benefits that they should have available to them, whether it's psychotherapy through their paramedical benefits through their healthcare provider, whether it's reimbursement for their CPAP machines if they were diagnosed with sleep apnea, and at the insurance level, making sure that those who have the disorder have the coverage for these programs. That's a big part of it as well. Erin Patchell: Do you think that sleep could be built into the culture of the organization? Aaron Arkin: I think it should be, and I think it could be. I've certainly heard of some organizations that offer nap pods in their office, which sounds a little quirky, but isn't necessarily the worst thing. Your sleep can be reduced for reasons that not necessarily or negative reasons. If you're lying in bed because you're stressed, that's one thing. If you're only sleeping four or 5 hours a night because you have a toddler or you have a sick relative or something, that's another reason as well. So if you do have a reason to take a nap, then that should be supported. It shouldn't necessarily be frowned upon. Go into a quiet room to sit for like 30 minutes in a comfortable chair and get a little bit of sleep to help catch up and make you a little more refreshed. Aaron Arkin: That should be a beneficial thing. But even workplace wellness awareness should be something that should be on the table as well. Even if it's a lunchtime discussion about sleep by a sleep professional or some sort of awareness that needs to be promoted within an industry. Erin Patchell: Yeah, for sure. I think for me, just using things as a red flag, if people aren't sleeping well, that can help us diagnose other issues like are you stressed at work? Is it the workload too much? How do we problem solve some things? But are you... are you saying that naps are approved? Is that allowed? Aaron Arkin: Approved is an interesting term. When I was younger and thought I knew everything, I used to always be with the mindset that oh napping is horrible, you should never ever do it. That just means you're not sleeping right at night. But as I've gotten older and perhaps a little bit wiser, I've started to realize that there are circumstances that prevent you from getting the adequate amount of sleep at night. And if you do need to take some time to take a nap during the day, then take the time to have a nap as opposed to trying to fight through it. And then your body takes that sleep from you when you're not prepared. And that could be even more detrimental like driving a car or giving a presentation or something along those lines. So if your body needs to take a nap, listen to your body take that nap for 2030 minutes. Aaron Arkin: Try not to let it go much longer than that and that'll give you the energy to be able to go through the rest of the day. Erin Patchell: Okay, so a limited nap, not like my two hour and a half bare slumber and then you wake up like you're super angry and you want know. Aaron Arkin: You just eat the whole used to, I used to work for a company based out of Montreal and I live in Toronto so I do that drive back and forth. There'd be sometimes I'd do that drive where halfway through I was starting to struggle and notice that I'm getting fairly sleepy. So I'd pull over at the next rest stop, I'd lock my doors, I'd kick my seat back, 20 minutes later I feel good as gold and I can do the drive and go about my day. So taking the time to give your body the sleep that it needs is going to be helpful so you can continue that performance, right? Yes. Erin Patchell: So strategically napping is okay. Aaron Arkin: Yes. If you find that you're taking a two hour nap every day, that could be a clinical sign but if you're finding that you need a 20 minutes nap once every couple of weeks, then take the nap. Erin Patchell: Yeah. Okay. Awesome advice. Is there any other advice that you would like to give the listeners? Aaron Arkin: So there's all sorts of sleep tips that come about in typical discussions. I have dozens and dozens of tips that I can give people, but I'm not a big fan of routines in life, and I imagine that the community that you're reaching out to aren't necessarily fans of routines as well, except when it comes to sleep. I find it's helpful to have a bit of a routine when it comes to sleep because that can really increase the quality of your sleep. Doesn't necessarily need to be so regimented, but it also needs to be with the understanding that sometimes we move out of our routine, and that's perfectly fine. If you have a consistent 11:00 to 07:00 sleep schedule, there's going to be times where you stay up late, and that's perfectly normal. There's going to be times where maybe you sleep in a little bit, and that's perfectly fine. Understanding how we sleep and understand how we can manage these sorts of things is really going to lead to future increased quality of your sleep and then again, that daytime performance as well. But if there's literally one sleep tip that I can give every single person around the world is this always try to wake up at the same time every day. Aaron Arkin: Because waking up at the same time every day is the anchor that's going to start you for the rest of the day. So you can tire yourself out, so you can get a good quality sleep the next day, and so on and so forth. So keeping a consistent wake up time is always the one sleep tip that I would try to give everybody. Erin Patchell: Yeah, that is very good advice and one that I'm trying desperately to get my 18 year old teenage boy named James to take into consideration. Aaron Arkin: So with 18 year olds and I was an 18 year old once too, I find it can be helpful to maintain a consistent wake up time by providing an incentive. Do something that you can enjoy doing first thing in the morning that'll make that wake up time a little less cumbersome. Maybe it's getting an early workout in. Maybe it's watching a Netflix program that no one else in your house likes to watch. Maybe it's taking the dog for a walk or getting some fresh air. Find something that you can enjoy doing first thing in the morning that'll make that cumbersome wake up time a little less negative for you. Erin Patchell: Absolutely. Yeah. Good tip. And since we're kind of wrapping up, if folks want to reach out to you specifically and learn more about the work that you do and how you can support them with their sleep, how would they get a hold of you? Aaron Arkin: Sure. So as. The director of insomnia services for Kerikahealth. They can find us on our website, careicahealth.com. You can find lots of different services that we offer there. I'm sure they can reach out to you if they wanted to get my contact information, just to make sure that people are a little more aware of their sleep. And speaking to your family physician if you find that you're having trouble sleeping is always a really great first step to be able to see what other treatment options might be available for you. Erin Patchell: Absolutely. And those pieces of information will be at the bottom of the podcast episode script. If anyone's listening and would like to grab those, we'll leave them there. Aaron Arkin: Great. Erin Patchell: Awesome. Thanks so much, Aaron. Aaron Arkin: Thank you so much, Erin. Erin Patchell: Excellent, Aaron and Erin, coming to you. [Laughs] Thanks again to Aaron Arkin for joining us on the show and remember the Irish proverb: a good laugh and a long sleep are the two best cures for anything. This is Erin Patchell signing off. Don't forget to stay weird, stay wonderful, and don't stay out of trouble. [Outro Music] If you like this episode of Weirdos in the workplace, don't forget to, like, subscribe and share this with your friends. You can visit us at Positivist.ca. P-O-S-I-T-I-V-I-S-T dot CA. Or give us a shout on any social media @positivistgroup or reach out to me at Erin Patchell. And have a great day at work. ---- Podcast Resources Careica Health: https://careicahealth.com/insomnia/insomnia-therapy/ Aaron Arkin Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/aaronarkin

Ver todos los episodios