What happens when you mix marketing smarts with L&D practice? In this episode, Roy talks with Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor, co-authors of Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro. Together, they explore how marketing mindsets and methods can help learning professionals better understand their audience, personalise training, and move beyond one-size-fits-none learning.💡 Spoiler alert: Thinking like a marketer doesn't mean just "jazzing up" your courses.About Bianca & MikeBianca Baumann is a learning strategist based in Toronto with roots in business education and a passion for designing campaigns that drive behaviour change. Mike Taylor is a learning designer with a background in digital marketing, known for his Friday Finds newsletter full of L&D inspiration. Together, they believe L&D can learn a lot from marketing…if we’re willing to listen.What you’ll learn in this episode:Why it’s a problem if your course needs to be “jazzed up”What L&D can learn from email marketing and digital body languageHow personas and empathy maps help you really understand your learnersWhy “go to Gemba” is still solid advice for L&D teamsWhat to try first if you want to design learning as a campaignWhy “Compliance 101” might not be the best title for your courseHow Mike and Bianca accidentally ended up writing a book togetherResources & inspiration📘 Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro – by Bianca & Mike📚 Alchemy by Rory Sutherland📚 *Books & blogs by Seth Godin*💌 Friday Finds by Mike Taylor📰 MarketingProfs.com🏢 Content Marketing InstituteQuick tips to apply right awayStart your next learning journey with audience interviews, not assumptionsUse headline tools (or AI) to craft more engaging course titlesTest small campaigns using tools you already have (like email)Think beyond your LMS—learning can happen anywhereCall it a pilot if you want to try something new without pushbackEpisode highlights[00:01:00] – Why learning needs a marketing mindset[00:10:00] – Why digital body language matters for L&D too[00:13:00] – The mistake of buying tools before building strategy[00:16:00] – Personas vs. demographics and how to create them[00:18:00] – The training that failed because of a 64K connection[00:21:00] – Behaviour change starts with meaning, not more info[00:24:00] – Thinking beyond LMS: the electric vehicle expo story[00:27:00] – Using triggers like clickbait (ethically!) in learning[00:30:00] – How to get buy-in for new ideas: “yes, and…”[00:32:00] – Common resistance from L&D purists and how to respond[00:34:00] – Why standing your ground takes time and confidence[00:37:00] – Inspiration sources and real-world marketing examples[00:41:00] – Bianca’s first learning crush: a situational leadership course[00:43:00] – Mike’s least favourite myth: learning stylesWe’d love your feedback!What did you think of this episode? Do you apply any marketing ideas in your training design? Let us know via [email] or drop us a message on [LinkedIn].📣 Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with fellow L&D pros who want to make learning actually work.

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