“Immersive learning is all about having these assumptions and putting them to the test.”Michiel Hulsbergen, Founder @ DialogueTrainerEpisode 02 – Michiel Hulsbergen on Training Conversational Skills with Digital AvatarsIn this second episode of the Training Improvement Café, Roy sits down with psychologist and DialogueTrainer founder Michiel Hulsbergen. Together, they explore how conversation simulations can boost learning transfer, help professionals build real confidence, and make complex interpersonal skills more trainable and scalable.💡 Spoiler alert: If you think your training is effective because learners feel confident, think again.About MichielMichiel Hulsbergen is a psychologist with a background in business administration and decades of experience in conversation skills training. He started out as a training actor before founding DialogueTrainer, a company that creates simulation-based learning environments for soft skills. With over 20 years in the field and a decade focused on learning technologies, Michiel brings a rich perspective on the intersection of psychology, emotions, and technology-enhanced learning.What you'll learn in this episode:Why Michiel thinks traditional text-based training can create false confidenceHow interactive simulations make learners more aware of complex interpersonal dynamicsWhy emotion and believability are essential ingredients in learning transferHow DialogueTrainer’s tools are used to support real-world leadership developmentThe impact of avatar-based practice versus real-life role playThe surprising power of immersive learning to surface implicit skills and emotional insightFeatured Simulation: Game-Changing LeadershipRoy and Michiel explore a live leadership simulation that helps managers improve coaching skills through realistic dialogue. The demo showcases:Building rapport and guiding conversations strategicallySubtle emotional cues in avatar interactionsReflective decision-making in high-stakes leadership momentsQuick tips to apply right awayDon’t just aim for confidence—aim for realistic confidence. Simulations can challenge learners’ assumptions and surface hidden gaps in their skills.Use emotion as a signal, not a distraction. Train learners to reflect on their emotional responses during conversations to better understand behaviour.Combine text and simulation. Reading builds understanding, but simulations provoke reflection and make learning stick.Start with practice, not theory. Use immersive scenarios to confront learners with realistic challenges before offering explanatory models.Design for reflection, not just performance. Include moments where learners pause, assess options, and predict outcomes.Role-play isn't dead—it's scalable. Use avatar-based role-play to create safe, repeatable practice environments that mimic real pressure.Michiel’s sources of inspirationKeith Keating – The Trusted Learning AdvisorPaul Ekman – Facial expression and emotion theoryLisa Feldman Barrett – Constructed emotion and behavioural scienceNico Frijda – Emotions as promoters of interestFrans de Waal – Primate behaviour and social interactionWant to learn more?Visit dialoguetrainer.com to explore the tools and research behind DialogueTrainer.Read The Trusted Learning Advisor by Keith Keating for a call to arms for modern L&D professionals.Look up Frans de Waal’s Chimpanzee Politics for behavioural insights with a smile.We'd love your feedback!What did you think of this episode? Share your thoughts or questions with us at [email protected] or tag us on LinkedIn.Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with your fellow learning pioneers.

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