This talk was given by Kikan Mike Howard on August 3, 2025 at Clouds in Water Zen Center.Kikan Michael Howard started practicing at Clouds in Water Zen Center in the late 1990s and was ordained by Sosan in 2018. He is an associate member of the Teacher Ryo at Clouds. Kikan is an independent app developer, a licensed consultant in Dynamic Emotional Integration®, and he transcribes Katagiri Roshi’s dharma talks at the Katagiri Transcripts website, katagiritranscripts.net. He lives in Northfield, MN with his wife and cats.

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