In this episode, I sat down with Cleoniki Kesidis—copywriter, marketing strategist, and mompreneur—to unpack the real, messy truths about selling online courses and memberships. We got honest about what actually works (and what doesn’t), why authentic messaging is your superpower, and the importance of constant experimentation in marketing. Cleoniki shared how to diagnose why your course isn’t selling, tips for building sales pages that convert, and what shifting from one-on-one services to scalable programs really requires. We also dove into how to balance experimentation with limited time, and how being a parent shapes the way you approach business. If you’ve ever struggled to get your course off the ground, this conversation is packed with practical steps, mindset shifts, and a little bit of tough love. I hope it leaves you feeling encouraged to experiment, track your numbers, and always lead with your authentic self.Connect with Cleoniki KesidisWebsite: https://cleonikikesidis.com/Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/cleoniki.books/I’m building an online business in public — sharing every win, setback, and “I can’t believe that happened” moment along the way. If you’ve ever wondered what it really looks like to start from scratch, come along for the ride. Join the journey at https://wisdom.beehiiv.com/Chapters00:00:00 – Introduction & About the GuestWisdom introduces the Wisdom Journey podcast, sets the theme of the episode, and introduces Cleoniki Kesidis.00:01:44 – Cleoniki’s Journey Into Copywriting & MarketingCleoniki shares her unconventional path from science and technology to copywriting and helping creators.00:03:12 – Turning Point as a SolopreneurDiscussing the leap into solopreneurship and starting a "pandemic business".00:04:28 – Why Authenticity and Experimentation MatterCleoniki explains the importance of authenticity and experimentation for modern creators.00:06:58 – Top 3 Mistakes Creators Make When Selling CoursesThree biggest mistakes: messaging, systems, and not looking at data.00:13:43 – Diagnosing What’s Wrong: Idea, Copy, or Strategy?How to identify where the problem is if a course isn’t selling.00:18:26 – What Makes a Sales Page Convert?Cleoniki dives into practical and psychological aspects of crafting compelling sales pages.00:23:34 – Sales Page Overload & The Power of ClarityThe importance of clarity over cleverness and avoiding information overload.00:24:42 – Evergreen vs. Live Launches: What to ConsiderPros and cons of Evergreen and live launch strategies, especially for solopreneurs.00:27:27 – Transitioning from 1:1 Services to Group ProgramsHow marketing and messaging must change when moving to scalable offers.00:30:35 – The Real Messy Truths of Selling OnlineThe hard realities and myths around selling courses and the work it actually takes.00:33:49 – Motherhood, Time, and Business StrategyHow being a mom shapes Cleoniki’s approach to business and marketing.00:35:34 – How to Experiment When Time Is TightAdvice for making smart, small experiments rather than big risky moves.00:37:23 – Immediate Steps for Creators with Non-Selling CoursesThree actionable steps to take this week if your course isn’t selling.00:40:17 – Surprising Results from Marketing ExperimentsCleoniki shares an example of a small experiment with interesting results.00:41:51 – Future Opportunities: AI, Solopreneurs & MompreneursDiscussion about AI’s impact and advice for authentic, effective use.00:45:00 – Connect with Cleoniki & Wrap-UpHow to connect with Cleoniki and final thoughts from both speakers.

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