Host Ana Amrein Esnaola talks with Catherine Dempsey about why interdependent relationships—not transactions—drive social change.We explore participatory grantmaking, trust-based funding, and consensus decision-making, plus practical first steps (beginning with deep listening). Learn how centering community and connection builds resilience, improves funding decisions, and powers systemic impact.00:59 — Meet Catherine: Collaborative development & social value02:31 — Birds, sky, connection: Everyday cues for interdependence09:25 — Participatory grantmaking: Community power in funding13:09 — Relational approaches at work: From silos to ecosystems27:02 — Governance & consensus: What inclusive decisions look like30:44 — Why now: Democracy, resilience, and trust-based practice31:57 — Start here: Deep listening as a daily disciplineA big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle.We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision.We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

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