Pastor, author, and speaker Karl Vaters joins Josh and Stan by phone from southern California to share his personal story, discuss his books, and talk all things small church world. Topics include everything from small church relational dynamics, shepherd vs. rancher model, and pastoral care to attendance expectations vs. health and much more.Be sure to visit Karl's official website at https://www.karlvaters.com/You can also learn more about Karl's books at https://www.karlvaters.com/books/"Equipping the saints" episode reference: https://www.buzzsprout.com/811628/3630850-big-goals-for-small-churches"Equipping the saints" episode on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/big-goals-for-small-churches/id1494654074?i=1000473655404Support the showBe sure to follow 6:14 Ministries: facebook.com/614rebuildInstagram: @614rebuildTwitter: @614rebuild Learn more at 614ministries.org

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