Today, Hunter hosted a debate between Professor John Gross and Professor Bob Boruchowitz about the Public Defender National Workload Standards. Back in the spring of this year, John penned an article about some of the methodological and pragmatic issues with the National Workload study. Meanwhile, Bob has been working in Washington for decades to bring meaningful, enforceable workload standards across the state. Today, Hunter spoke with both of them to hear each side of this debate and to try and figure out the best way to use the national workload standards.   Guest: John Gross, Professor of Law, University of Wisconsin School of Law Bob Boruchowitz, Professor of Law, Seattle University School of Law   Resources: John's Article https://publicdefenders.us/blogs/the-problems-with-the-national-public-defense-workload-study/ John's Faculty Page https://law.wisc.edu/profiles/john.gross Bob's Writings https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/wa-works-toward-easing-public-defender-shortage-but-more-must-be-done/ https://law.seattleu.edu/media/school-of-law/documents/faculty/publications/boruchowitz/2025_01_RevisedStandards.pdf Other Responses to John's Article https://publicdefenders.us/blogs/the-problem-with-ignoringthe-national-public-defenseworkload-study/   Contact Hunter Parnell:                                 [email protected]  Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter                                                                 @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com  Subscribe to the Patreon www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast  Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN Trying to find a specific part of an episode? Use this link to search transcripts of every episode of the show! https://app.reduct.video/o/eca54fbf9f/p/d543070e6a/share/c34e85194394723d4131/home  

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