What a week! Time to grab your space helmets and head to Planet Normal, and joining you in the rocket today is Oxford University epidemiologist, Professor Sunetra Gupta. Fresh from a meeting with the PM, she tells Telegraph columnists Allison Pearson and Liam Halligan why the government was wrong to base the lockdown on worst-case scenario modelling, why this is only a "third division" pandemic and why she wonders if her views would win her less flak were she a white man...Plus Allison tells Liam why she's rejoicing at the news that her son has the virus, and the pair debate whether Keir Starmer can really win back the Red Wall after a powerful speech at this week's Labour Conference. from Allison: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/allison-pearson/ | from Liam: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/liam-halligan/ |Do you need help subscribing or reviewing? about podcasts here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/podcasts/podcast-can-find-best-ones-listen/ |Get 30 days’ free access to The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/normal |Email: planetnormal@telegraph.co.uk |See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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