Ezra Klein is on a book tour — you may have heard his voice on some of your other favorite podcasts talking about Abundance. Today, Ben and Max also talk to The New York Times columnist and host… but you won’t hear anything about the book (so you’ll just have to buy it). Instead, they ask Ezra what he’s learned about the media and podcasting through this latest tour, how the “abundance” framework might apply to media, and if Trump will go after the press next. They also discuss how he’s become a rare media celebrity for liberals, why his fans feel saner listening to him — and how that may not be a good thing.

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