It took 15 votes, and in the end, the insurrectionists finally captured the House: Our takeaways from how the speaker drama played out and what has transpired since, what it all tells us about the Republican Party, and how the rightwing fringe has moved to the center of conservative politics – Nihilism. Chaos agents. Burning it all down. To many observers, the speaker spectacle confirmed that’s basically all there is to the MAGA Right. We discuss the “nihilism” interpretation, why it risks obscuring the ideological core of the rightwing political project, and why it falls short of explaining what, exactly, holds all the different factions on the Right together – We need to talk about Ron DeSantis: According to Never Trump conservatives and quite a few centrists, DeSantis is a less dangerous, more “normal” alternative to Trump. We dive into his actual record as governor of Florida, which is staunchly anti-democratic and concerningly authoritarian, and discuss why “He is better/worse than Trump” is not a very helpful framework to look at DeSantis and the political project he is pursuing.

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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch

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