Andy explains the what and why of his prison program design: Physical activity challenges in groups to enable people to experience agency and community sometimes for the first time, and using this as a gateway to hearts and minds. He talks about the elusive nature of success in this kind of work and how he's learned to quantify it so he can hold on to hope and present it to others. These podcasts don't get made unless Tom Haigh of Sound Post Production www.tomhaigh.com and interviewer Tony Maguire www.boxkik.com decide to roll out of bed. Fortunately for me I still seem to be giving them reason to do so. Chapeau, gentlemen.

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