What happens when you flip the traditional business pyramid upside down? In this episode, I sit down with Ian Hiscock, founder of IHC Limited and a seasoned voice in the UK employee ownership sector. After 30 years at the iconic John Lewis Partnership, Ian now helps companies navigate the complex transition to employee ownership as an independent trustee and advisor. He shares the psychological shifts, leadership challenges, and cultural transformations that make employee ownership work—or fail.We explore the fundamental mindset changes required from both leaders and employees when transitioning to shared ownership. Ian unpacks his "Four Cs" framework for successful employee engagement, discusses why employee ownership is actually the "purest form of capitalism," and reveals why the transition can be harder for leaders than employees. From managing through tough times to creating psychological safety, this conversation is packed with practical insights for any founder considering an alternative exit strategy.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview 01:18 Ian's Journey at John Lewis Partnership 03:39 Understanding the Philosophy Behind Employee Ownership 06:31 Balancing Commercial Success with Employee Benefits 11:49 Protecting Business Independence Through EO 12:59 The Psychological Contract in Employee Ownership 15:23 Inverting the Leadership Pyramid 18:48 The Four Cs: Clarity, Context, Consistency, Contribution 22:25 Creating Psychological Safety for Employee Voice 24:58 Who Struggles More: Leaders or Employees? 29:46 Employee Ownership During Tough Times 34:18 The Twin Tracks: Culture and Financial Reward 36:16 Quick Fire Questions: Leadership Inspirations 41:28 Advice for Business Owners on the Fence 43:06 How to Connect with IanKey Takeaways:Leaders must psychologically shift to serving daily colleagues who now own the businessThe "Four Cs" framework: Clarity, Context, Consistency, and ContributionEmployee ownership is pure capitalism—spreading ownership benefits, not rejecting commercial successLeaders often struggle more than employees due to emotional obligations to colleaguesPsychological safety must exist organization-wide, not just in specific voice sessionsTwo tracks required: developing ownership culture while ensuring financial rewardsAbout Ian Hiscock:Ian Hiscock is the founder of IHC Limited and a leading voice in the UK employee ownership sector. After spending 30 years at the John Lewis Partnership, including roles as an employee trustee and chair of democratically elected bodies, Ian now serves as an independent trustee on multiple Employee Ownership Trusts. He helps businesses transition their governance, culture, and trust structures toward employee ownership, drawing on deep experience in both the philosophical foundations and practical realities of shared ownership models.Connect with Ian:LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/ian-hiscock-926437137/ Website: https://ihclimited.co.uk Connect with Andy Farquharson:LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - [email protected] 

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