What if “fun” isn’t the opposite of “work”—but the missing ingredient? In this episode of A Productive Conversation, I sit down with Bree Groff, workplace culture expert and author of Today Was Fun: A Book About Work (Seriously). We dig into how play, permission, and presence can transform not only the way we work—but the way we live.Bree draws on her deep experience guiding Fortune 500 leaders through complex organizational change to offer a refreshingly human perspective on professionalism, productivity, and yes, pajama pants. This is more than a talk about workplace dynamics—it’s a conversation about reclaiming your days.Six Discussion PointsWhy wishing away the workweek is wishing away your lifeHow “fun” at work is often less about ping-pong tables and more about permissionThe myth of performative professionalism (and the case for stretchy pants)The role of novelty, creativity, and risk in making work feel meaningfulEnvironment as a silent force shaping our work habits and cultureHow a simple question—“Was today fun?”—can reframe your entire lifeThree Connection PointsBree’s WebsiteBree's SubstackEpisode 470 – Mike Rucker talks about The Fun HabitTalking with Bree reminded me that the best kind of productivity—the kind I advocate for—is rooted in presence, play, and people. Her perspective is a timely nudge toward joy, and Today Was Fun is a book I’ll keep close for those days when the calendar feels heavier than it should. I hope this conversation lightens yours.

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