In this episode, Tom Griffiths is joined by Phil Draper, Founder of 21 Engineering, to explore the realities of building an engineering consultancy focused on operational performance, energy efficiency, and long-term sustainability.Phil shares his journey from training as an electrician in the late 1990s to working across complex industrial and commercial environments, including clean rooms, specialist gases, and large-scale estates. His experience on both the delivery and client side—most notably with British Land—gave him a deep understanding of how buildings actually operate, as well as the challenges asset owners face when balancing cost, maintenance, and sustainability goals.The conversation dives into what makes 21 Engineering different from traditional consultancies. Rather than leading with theory-heavy reports, Phil explains how his team works hands-on with clients to understand real-world building performance, align decarbonisation plans with asset life cycles, and deliver practical solutions that reduce both carbon and operating costs. Case studies include live, occupied buildings where heat pumps were installed without disruption and achieved measurable cost savings.Phil also opens up about the transition from employee to business owner, including the challenges of confidence, cash flow, hiring, and learning to manage people as the company grew. He discusses the importance of understanding personal value, pricing work correctly, and making early hires—particularly graduates—to build culture and capability sustainably.A strong theme throughout the episode is relationships. Phil emphasises long-term partnerships over short-term wins, both with clients and suppliers, and explains why trust, credibility, and leading by example have been central to 21 Engineering’s growth. This philosophy is reflected in the company’s own headquarters, which operates as a live demonstration of the technologies and principles they recommend to clients.The episode concludes with Phil’s advice to aspiring founders: focus on stability before scale, back your expertise, and build a business around genuine value creation rather than chasing quick returns.Contact Phil here: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/philip-draper-ceng-fcibse-99459411

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