On this week's episode of Zen and the Art of Real Estate Investing, Jonathan Greene sits down with interior designer Marcy Sagel, founder and principal of MSA Interiors, a nationally recognized commercial design firm specializing in multifamily, senior housing, healthcare, and large-scale developments. They explore how smart design decisions can dramatically impact renter experience, tenant retention, and net operating income—often without blowing up the budget. Marcy shares the story of how a single project with a supportive architect-mentor evolved into a portfolio of large-scale multifamily and healthcare work across the country. From there, Jonathan and Marcy dive into the details that operators often overlook: how lobby art and amenities shape first impressions, why designers insist on holding the spec once materials are chosen, and how transparency around product pricing can protect both developers and residents. Marcy explains why functionality is just as important as aesthetics—things like where the sofa and TV actually fit, whether you can get a couch down the hallway, and how closet space, bathrooms, lighting, and unit layouts influence who wants to live in a building and how much they're willing to pay. They also talk about how COVID changed amenity expectations, from coworking and Zoom rooms to package rooms, cold storage for grocery delivery, pet wash stations, and creative vending concepts for residents. Marcy highlights the unique demands of healthcare and senior living design, including memory care safety, assisted living functionality, and the importance of natural light and outdoor access in driving wellness. Throughout the conversation, she comes back to one central idea: if owners think about residents first and involve a design team early, they can future-proof their properties, reduce turnover, and outcompete newer projects for years to come. In this episode, you will hear: How Marcy transitioned from residential design into large-scale multifamily, healthcare, and senior living projects with the help of an architect-mentor. Why involving an interior designer early in a project can save money, prevent costly change orders, and create a cohesive, long-lasting design. Practical ways to upgrade B-class and affordable communities—on a HUD-constrained or tight construction budget—without sacrificing aesthetics. The design details that residents care about most: closet size, bathroom finishes, in-unit laundry, lighting, circulation, and furniture-friendly layouts. How COVID reshaped amenity programming with coworking areas, Zoom rooms, package rooms, cold storage, pet amenities, and flexible vendor spaces. The role of design in building community, reducing turnover, and making residents—and their families in senior living—feel safe, connected, and at home. Follow and Review If you enjoy the show, please follow Zen and the Art of Real Estate Investing on Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review. It helps other listeners discover these conversations and supports the show's growth.   Supporting Resources Connect with Marcy: Website: https://msainteriors.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MSAInteriors  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/MarcySagel/  Connect with Jonathan: Website - www.streamlined.properties  YouTube - www.youtube.com/c/JonathanGreeneRE/videos  Instagram - www.instagram.com/trustgreene  Instagram - www.instagram.com/streamlinedproperties    Zillow - www.zillow.com/profile/streamlinen​j Bigger Pockets -  www.biggerpockets.com/users/jonathangreene Facebook - www.facebook.com/streamlinedproperties  Email - [email protected]   This episode was produced by Outlier Audio.

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