In this animal-focused episode, Rick's two guests are Jonathan Balcombe and Jo-Anne McArthur. Jonathan is a world-renowned biologist, ethologist, and author of popular science books on the inner lives of animals, including Pleasurable Kingdom, Second Nature, and What a Fish Knows - a New York Times best-seller. Jo-Anne is an award-winning photojournalist, speaker, and founder of WeAnimalsMedia. She’s visited over sixty countries to document our complex relationship with animals. As a pack, they talk aboutEthologyAnimal photojournalism“Try and try again”How you protect what you loveAnimal sentienceAnimal playfulnessThings getting better AND worseCultural influence on meat-eatingThe effects of vegetarianismLeading by exampleThe ick-factor of lab-grown meatFactory farms as conflict zonesAd-gag lawsAnd trivia for plant-eaters... You do make friends with salad.XingTheGap.comBoomTheShow.comRickMiller.caig: @xingthegapfb: @xingthegapig: @rickmilleractortw/x: @rickmilleractorjonathanbalcombe.comfb: JonathanBalcombeAuthortw/x: @jonathanpb1959weanimalsmedia.orgYoutube: weanimalsmediafb: WeAnimalsig: @WeAnimalstw/x: @WeAnimals

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