In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we explore how Miles Copeland, manager of The Police, turned Sting's unmarketable song "Desert Rose" into a 28-million-dollar advertising campaign without spending a dime. The story reveals a powerful principle most businesses miss—the difference between approaching companies at the purchasing department versus the receiving dock.
Dan introduces his concept that successful entrepreneurs make two fundamental decisions: they're responsible for their own financial security, and they create value before expecting opportunity. This "receiving dock" mentality—showing up with completed value rather than asking for money upfront—changes everything about how business gets done.
We also explore how AI is accelerating adaptation to change, using tariff policies as an unexpected example of how quickly markets and entire provinces can adjust when forced to. We discuss the future of pharmaceutical TV advertising, why Canada's interprovincial trade barriers fell in 60 days, and touch on everything from the benefits of mandatory service to Gavin Newsom's 2028 positioning. Throughout, Charlotte (my AI assistant) makes guest appearances, instantly answering our curiosities.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS


How Miles Copeland got $28M in free advertising for Sting by giving Jaguar a music video instead of asking for payment.
Why approaching the "receiving dock" with completed value beats going to the "purchasing department" with requests.
Dan's two fundamental entrepreneur decisions: take responsibility for your financial security and create value before expecting opportunity.
How AI is accelerating adaptation, from tariff responses to Canada eliminating interprovincial trade barriers in 60 days.
Why pharmaceutical advertising might disappear from television in 3-4 years and what it means for the industry.
Charlotte the AI making guest appearances as the ultimate conversation tiebreaker and Google bypass.


Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com


TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Dean Jackson:
Mr. Sullivan,
Dan Sullivan:
Good morning. Good morning.
Dean Jackson:
Good morning. Good morning. Our best to you this morning. Boy, you haven't heard that in a long time, have you?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. What was that?
Dean Jackson:
KE double LO Double G, Kellogg's. Best to you.
Dan Sullivan:
There you go.
Dean Jackson:
Yes,
Dan Sullivan:
There you go.
Dean Jackson:
I thought you might enjoy that as
Dan Sullivan:
An admin, the advertise. I bet everybody who created that is dead.
Dean Jackson:
I think you're probably right.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I was just noticing that. Jaguar, did you follow the Jaguar brand change?
Dean Jackson:
No. What happened just recently?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Basically maybe 24. They decided to completely rebrand. Since the rebranding, they've sold almost no cars and they fired their marketing. That's problem. Problem. Yeah. You can look it up on YouTube. There's about 25 P mode autopsies.
Dean Jackson:
Wow.
Dan Sullivan:
Where
Dean Jackson:
People are talking mean must. It's true. Because they haven't, there's nothing. It's pretty amazing, actually, when you think about it. The only thing, the evidence that you have that Jaguar even exists is when you see the Waymo taxis in Phoenix.
Dan Sullivan:
Is that Jaguar?
Dean Jackson:
They're Jaguars. Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, yeah, they just decided that they needed an upgrade. They needed to bring it into the 21st century. Couldn't have any of that traditional British, that traditional British snobby sort of thing. So yeah, when they first, they brought out this, I can't even say it was a commercial, because it wasn't clear that they were selling anything, but they had all these androgynous figures. You couldn't quite tell what their gender was. And they're dressed up in sort of electric colors, electric greens and reds, and not entirely clear what they were doing. Not entirely clear what they were trying to create, not were they selling something, didn't really know this. But not only are they, and then they brought out a new electric car, an ev. This was all for the sake of reading out their, and people said, nothing new here. Nothing new here. Not particularly interesting. Has none of the no relationship to the classic Jaguar look and everything. And as a result of that, not only are they not selling the new EV car, they're not selling any of their other models either.
Dean Jackson:
I can't even remember the last time you saw it. Betsy Vaughn, who runs our 90 minute book team, she has one of those Jaguar SUV things like the Waymo one. She is the last one I've seen in the wild. But my memory of Jaguar has always, in the nineties and the early two thousands, Jaguar was always distinct. You could always tell something was a Jaguar and you could never tell what year it was. I mean, it was always unique and you could tell it wasn't the latest model because they look kind of distinctly timeless.
And that was something that was really, and even the color palettes of them were different. I think about that green that they had. And interesting story about Jaguar, because I listened to a podcast called How I Built This, and they had one of my, I would say this is one of my top five podcasts ever that I've listened to is an interview with Miles Copeland, who was the manager of the police, the band. And in the seventies when the police were just getting started, miles, who was the brother of Stuart Copeland, the drummer for the police. He was their manager, and he was new to managing. He was new to the business. He only got in it because his brother was in the band, and they needed a manager. So he took over. But he was very, very smart about the things that he did. He mentioned that he realized on reflection that the number one job of a manager is to make sure that people know your band exists. And then he thought, well, that's true. But there are people, it's more important that the 400 event bookers in the UK know that my band exists. And he started a magazine that only was distributed to the 400 Bookers. It looked like a regular magazine, but he only distributed it to 400 people.
And it was like the big, that awareness for them. But I'll tell you that story, just to tell you that in the early two thousands when Sting was a solo artist, and he had launched a new album, and the first song on the album was a song called Desert Rose, which started out with a Arabic. It was collaboration with an Arabic singer. So the song starts out with this Arabic voice singing Arabic, an Arabic cry sort of thing. And this was right in the fall of 2001. And
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's a good,
Dean Jackson:
They could not get any airplay on radio airplay. You couldn't get American airplay of a song that starts out with an Arabic wailing Arabic language. And so they shot a video for this song with Chebe was the guy, the Che Mumbai, I guess is the singer. So they shot a video and they were just driving through the desert between Palm Springs and Las Vegas, and they used the brand new Jaguar that had just been released, and it was really like a stunning car. It was a beautiful car that was, I think, peak Jaguar. And when Miles saw the video, he said, that's a beautiful car. And they saw the whole video. He thought you guys just made a car commercial. And he went to Jaguar and said, Hey, we just shot this video, and it's a beautiful, highlights your car, and if you want to use it in advertising, I'll give you the video.
If you can make the ad look like it's an ad for Sting's new album. I can't get airplay on it now. So Jaguar looked at it. He went to the ad agency that was running Jaguar, and they loved it, loved the idea, and they came back to Miles and said, we'd love it. Here's what we edited. Here's what we did. And it looks like a music video. But kids, when was basically kids dream of being rock stars, and what do rock stars dream of? And they dream of Jaguars, right? And it was this, all the while playing this song, which looked like a music video with the thing in the corner saying from the new album, A Brand New Day by Sting. And so it looked like a music video for Sting, and they showed him an ad schedule that they were going to purchase 28 million of advertising with this. They were going to back it with a 28 million ad spend. And so he got 28 million of advertising for Stings album for free by giving them the video. And I thought, man, that is so, it was brilliant. Lucky, lucky. It was a VCR. Yeah. Lucky,
Dan Sullivan:
Lucky, lucky.
Dean Jackson:
It was a VCR collaboration. Perfectly executed.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. It just shows that looking backwards capability, what I can say something that was just lucky looks like capability.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah, the whole,
Dan Sullivan:
I mean, basically it saved their ass.
Dean Jackson:
It saved Sting and Yeah. Oh yeah. But I think when you look in the,
Dan Sullivan:
No, it was just lucky. It was just lucky. I mean, if there hadn't been nine 11, there's no saying. There's no saying it would've gone anywhere.
Dean Jackson:
Right, exactly.
Dan Sullivan:
Well, the album would've gone, I mean, stain was famous.
Speaker 1:
It would've
Dan Sullivan:
Gone, but they probably, no, it's just a really, really good example of being really quick on your feet when something,
Dean Jackson:
I think, because there's other examples of things that he did that would lead me to believe it was more strategic than luck. He went to the record label, and the record label said, he said he was going to give the video to Jaguar, and they said, you're supposed to get money for licensing these things. And then he showed them the ad table that the media buy that they were willing to put behind it. And he said, oh, well, if you can match, you give me 28 million of promotion for the album, I'll go back and get some money from them for. And the label guy said, oh, well, let's not be too hasty here. But that, I think really looking at that shows treating your assets as collaboration currency rather than treating that you have to get a purchase order for it. Most people would think, oh, we need to get paid for that. The record label guy was thinking, but he said, no, we've got the video. We already shot it. It didn't cost us, wouldn't cost us anything to give it to them. But the value of the 28 million of promotion,
It was a win-win for everyone. And by the way, that's how he got the record deal for the police. He went to a and m and said, he made the album first. He met a guy, a dentist, who had a studio in the back of his dental. He was aspiring musician, but he rented the studio for 4,000 pounds for a month, and he sent the police into the studio to make their album. So they had a finished album that he took to a and m and said, completely de-risk this for them. We've got the album. I'll give you the album and we'll just take the highest royalty that a and m pays. So the only decision that a and m had to make was do they like the album? Otherwise, typically they would say, we need you to sign these guys. And then they would have to put up the money to make the album and hope that they make a good album. But it was already done, so there was no risk. They just had to release it. And they ended up, because of that, making the most money of any of the a and m artists, because they didn't take an advance. They didn't put any risk on a and m.
It was pretty amazing actually, the stories of it.
Dan Sullivan:
I always say that really successful entrepreneurs make two fundamental decisions at the beginning of their career. One is they're going to be responsible for their own financial security, number one. And number two is that they'll create value before they expect opportunity. So this is decision number two. They created value, and now the opportunity got created by the value that they got created. You're putting someone else in a position that the only risk they're taking is saying no.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And you know what it's, I've been calling this receiving doc thinking of most businesses are going to the purchasing department trying to get in line and convince somebody to write a purchase order for a future delivery of a good or service. And they're met with resistance and they're met with a rigorous evaluation process. And we've got to decide and be convinced that this is going to be a prudent thing to do, and you're limiting yourself to only getting the money that's available now. Whereas if instead of going to the purchasing department, you go around to the back and you approach a company at the receiving dock, you're met with open arms. Every company is a hundred percent enthusiastically willing to accept new money coming into the business, and you're met with no resistance. And it's kind of, that was a really interesting example of that. And you see those examples everywhere.
Dan Sullivan:
All cheese.
Dean Jackson:
All cheese. No, whiskers. That's exactly right.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting, funny, I'm kind of thinking about this. For some reason, my personal email number is entered into some sort of marketing network because about every day now, I get somebody who the message goes like this, dear Dan, we've been noticing your social media, and we feel that you're underselling yourself, that there's much better ways that we personally could do this. And there's something different in each one of them. But if you take a risk on us, there's a possibility. There's a possibility. You never know. Life's that we can possibly make some more money on you and all by you taking the risk.
Dean Jackson:
Yes, exactly. Send money.
Dan Sullivan:
Send money.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And they're quite long. They're like two or three paragraphs. They're not nine words. They might be nine paragraph emails for all I know, but it's really, really interesting. Well, they're just playing a numbers game. They're sending this out to probably 5,000 different places, and somebody might respond. So anyway, but it just shows you, you're asking someone to take a risk.
Dean Jackson:
Yes. Yeah. I call that a purchase order. It's exactly it. You can commit to something before and hope for the best hope that the delivery will arrive instead of just showing up with the delivery. It's kind of similar in your always be the buyer approach.
Dan Sullivan:
What are you seeing there? Whatcha seeing
Dean Jackson:
There? I mean, that kind of thinking you are looking for, well, that's my interpretation anyway, of what you're saying of always be the buyer is that are selecting from
Dan Sullivan:
Certain type of customer, we're looking for a certain type of customer, and then we're describing the customer, and it's based on our understanding that a certain type of customer is looking for a certain type of process that meets who they're not only that, but puts them in a community of people like themselves. Yeah. So
Dean Jackson:
I look at that, that's that kind of thing where one of the questions that I'll often ask people is just to get clarity is what would you do if you only got paid if your client gets the result? And that's, it's clarifying on a couple of levels. One, it clarifies what result you're actually capable of getting, because what do you have certainty, proof, and a protocol around if we're talking the vision terms. And the other part of that is if you are going to get that result, if you're only going to get paid, if they get the result, you are much more selective in who you select to engage with, rather than just like anybody that you can convince to give you the money, knowing that they're not going to be the best candidate anyway. But they take this, there's an element of external blame shifting when they don't get the result by saying, well, everything is there. It's up to them. They just didn't do anything with it.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I mean, it's a really interesting world that we're in, because we've talked about this before with ai. Now on the scene, the sheer amount of marketing attempts at marketing
Speaker 1:
Is
Dan Sullivan:
Going through the roof, but the amount of attention that people have to entertain marketing suggestions and anything is probably going down very, very quickly. The amount of attention that they have. And it strikes me that, and then it's really interesting. There's a real high possibility that in the United States, probably within the next three or four years, there'll be no more TV advertising. The pharmaceuticals.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Very interesting.
Dan Sullivan:
Pharmaceuticals and the advertising industry is going crazy because a significant amount of advertising dollars really come from pharmaceuticals.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I wonder if you took out pharmaceuticals and beer, what the impact would be.
Dan Sullivan:
I bet pharmaceuticals is bigger than beer.
Dean Jackson:
I wonder. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like a job for perplexity.
Yeah. Why don't we
Dean Jackson:
Ask what categories? Yeah, categories are the top advertising spenders. Our top advertising spenders.
Dan Sullivan:
Well, I think food would be one
Dean Jackson:
Restaurant,
Dan Sullivan:
But I think pharmaceuticals, but I think pharmaceuticals would be a big one.
Dean Jackson:
Number one is retail. The leading category, counting for the highest proportion of ad spend, 15% of total ad spend is retail entertainment. And media is number two with 12% financial services, typically among the top three with 11% pharmaceutical and healthcare holds a significant share around 10%. Automotive motor vehicles is a major one. Telecommunications one of the fastest growing sectors, food and beverage and health and beauty. Those are the top. Yeah, that makes sense.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But you take, what was pharmaceuticals? Eight, 9%, something like that. 10%. 10%. 10%, 10%. Yeah. Well, that's a hit.
Dean Jackson:
I mean, it's more of a hit than Canada taking away their US liquor by That was a 1% impact.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
Well, that's not going anywhere right now. They're a long, long way from an agreement, a trade agreement, I'll tell you. Yeah. Well, the big thing, what supply management is, do you remember your Canadians
Dean Jackson:
Supply management? You mean like inventory management? First in, first out, last in, first out,
Dan Sullivan:
No. Supply management is paying farmers to only produce a certain amount of product in order to
Dean Jackson:
Keep prices up. Oh, the subsidies.
Dan Sullivan:
Subsidies. And that's apparently the big sticking point. And it's 10,000 farmers, and they're almost all in Ontario and Quebec,
Dean Jackson:
The dairy board and all that. Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
Yep, yep, yep, yep. And apparently that's the real sticking point.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I had a friend grown up whose parents owned a dairy farm, and they had 200 acres, and I forget how many, many cattle or how many cows they had, but that was all under contract, I guess, right. To the dairy board. It's not free market or whatever. They're supplying milk to the dairy board, I guess, under an allocation agreement. Yeah, very. That's interesting.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, and it's guaranteed they have guaranteed prices too.
Dean Jackson:
They're
Dan Sullivan:
Guaranteed a certain amount. I was looking at that for some reason. There was an article, and I was just reading it. It was about a dairy farm, I think it was a US dairy farm, and they had 5,000 cattle. So I looked up, how much acreage do you have to have for 5,000 dairy cows? And I forget what the number was, but it prompted me to say, I wonder what the biggest dairy farm in the world is this. So I went retro. I went to Google, and it's what now? Google. You know that? Google that? You remember Google? Oh, yeah, yeah. Old, good old Google. I remember that. Used to do something called a search on Google. Yeah,
Dean Jackson:
I remember now.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, I went retro. I went retro, and I said, and the biggest dairy farm is in China. It's 25 million acres.
Dean Jackson:
Wow. In context, how does that compare to,
Dan Sullivan:
It's a state of South Dakota. It's as big as
Dean Jackson:
South Dakota. Okay. That's what I was going to say. That's the entire state of
Dan Sullivan:
Yes, because I said, is there a state that's about the same size?
Dean Jackson:
I was just about to ask you that. Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
It's a Russian Chinese project, and the reason is that when the Ukraine war started, there was a real cutback in what the Russians could trade and getting milk in. They had to get milk in from somewhere else. So it comes in from China, but a lot of it must be wasted because they've got a hundred thousand dairy cows, a hundred thousand dairy cows. So I'm trying to
Dean Jackson:
Put that, well, that seems like a lot.
Dan Sullivan:
It just seems like a lot. Just seems like
Dean Jackson:
A lot. That seems like a lot of acreage per cow.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, they, one child policy, they probably have a one acre, a one 10 acre per cow
Dean Jackson:
Policy. Yeah, exactly.
Dan Sullivan:
You can just eat grass, don't do anything else. Just eat grass. Don't even move. But really interested, really, really interesting today, how things move. One of the things that's really interesting is that so far, the tariff policies have not had much. They have, first of all, the stock market is at peak right now. The stock market really peak, so it hasn't discouraged the stock market, which means that it hasn't disturbed the companies that people are investing in. The other thing is that inflation has actually gone down since they did that. Employment has gone up. So I did a search on perplexity, and I said 10 reasons why the experts who predicted disaster are being proven wrong with regard to the tariff policies.
And it was very interesting. It gave me 10 answers, and all the 10 answers were that people have been at all levels. People have been incredibly more responsive and ingenious in responding to this. And my feeling is that it has a lot to do with it, especially with ai. That's something that was always seen as a negative because people could only respond to it very slowly, is now not as a negative, simply because the responsiveness is much higher. That in a certain sense, every country in the planet, on the planet, every company, on the planet, professions and everything else, when you have a change like this, everybody adjusts real quickly. They have a plan B,
Dean Jackson:
Plan B, anyone finds loop Pauls and plan B. That's the thing.
Dan Sullivan:
Since Trump dropped the notion that he is going to do tariffs on Canada, almost all the provinces have gotten together in Canada, and they've eliminated almost all trade restrictions between the provinces, which have been there since the beginning of the country, but they were gone within 60
Dean Jackson:
Days
Dan Sullivan:
Afterwards.
Dean Jackson:
It was like, Hey, there, okay, maybe we should trade with each other.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, yeah.
Dean Jackson:
Very funny.
Dan Sullivan:
Which they don't because every province in Canada trades more with the United States than with the states close to them across the border than they do with any other Canadian province. Anyway. Well, the word is spreading, Dean, that if you listen to welcome to Cloud Landia, that probably there'll be an AI partner. There'll be an ai.
Dean Jackson:
Oh, yeah. Word is spreading. Okay, that's good.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, I like that. So let's what Charlotte think about the fact that she might be riding on the back of two humans and her fame is spreading based on the work of two humans.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's funny.
Dan Sullivan:
Does she feel a little sheepish about this?
Dean Jackson:
It's so funny because I think last time I asked her what she was doing when we're not there, and she does like, oh, I don't go off and explore or have curiosity or anything like that. It'll just sit here. I'm waiting for you. It was funny, Stuart, and I was here, Stuart Bell, who runs my new information, we were talking about just the visual personifying her as just silently sitting there waiting for you to ask her something or to get involved. She's never let us down. I mean, it's just so she knows all, she's a tiebreaker in any conversation, in any curiosity that you have, or there's no need to say, I wonder, and then leave it open-ended. We can just bring Charlotte into it, and it's amazing how much she knows. I definitely use her as a Google bypass for sure.
I just say I asked, we were sitting at Honeycomb this morning, which is my favorite, my go-to place for breakfast and coffee, and I was saying surrounded by as many lakes as we are, there should be, the environment would be, it's on kind of a main road, so it's got a little bit noisy, and it's not as ideal as being on a lake. And it reminded me of there's a country club active adult community, and I just asked her, is Lake Ashton, are they open for breakfast? Their clubhouse is right on the lake, and she's looking just instantly looks up. Yeah. Yeah. They're open every day, but they don't open until 10, so it was like nine o'clock when we were
Having this conversation. So she's saying there's a little bit of a comment about that, but there's not a lakefront cafe. There's plenty of places that would be, there's lots of excess capacity availability in a lot of places that are only open in the evenings there. There's a wonderful micro brewery called Grove Roots, which is right here in Winterhaven. It's an amazing, it's a great environment, beautiful high ceilings building that they open as a microbrew pub, and they have a rotating cast of food trucks that come there in the evenings, but they sit there vacant in the mornings, and I just think about how great that environment would be as a morning place, because it's quiet, it's spacious, it's shaded, it's all the things you would look for. And so I look at that as a capability asset that they have that's underutilized, and it wouldn't be much to partner with a coffee food truck. There was in Yorkville, right beside the Hazelton in the entrance, what used to be the entrance down into the What's now called Yorkville Village used to be Hazelton Lanes. There was a coffee truck called Jacked Up Coffee, and it was this inside. Now
Dan Sullivan:
It's
Dean Jackson:
Inside. Now it's inside. Yeah, exactly. It's inside now, but it used to sit in the breezeway on the entrance down into the Hazelton Lane. So imagine if you could get one of those trucks and just put that in the Grove Roots environment. So in the morning you've got this beautiful cafe environment,
Dan Sullivan:
And they could have breakfast sandwiches.
Dean Jackson:
Yes. That's the point. That's exactly it. There used to be a cafe in Winterhaven, pre COVID.
Dan Sullivan:
I mean, just stop by Starbucks and see what Starbucks has and just have that available. Exactly. In the truck. I mean, they do lots of research for you, so just take advantage of their research. But then what would you have picnic tables or something like that? They
Dean Jackson:
Have already. No, no. This is what I'm saying is that you'd use the Grove Roots
Dan Sullivan:
Existing restaurant,
Dean Jackson:
The existing restaurant. Yeah. Which is, they've got Adirondack chairs, they've got those kinds of chairs. They've got picnic tables, they've got regular tables and chairs inside. They've got
Speaker 1:
Comfy
Dean Jackson:
Leather sofas. They've got a whole bunch of different environments. That would be perfect. But I was saying pre COVID, there was a place in Winter Haven called Bean and Grape, and it was a cafe in the morning and a wine bar in the evening, which I thought makes the most sense of anything. You keep the cafe open and then four o'clock in the afternoon, switch it over, and it's a wine bar for a happy hour and the evening.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, you've got a marketing mind, plus you've got years of experience of marketing, helping people market different things. So it's really interesting that what is obvious to you other people would never think of.
Dean Jackson:
I'm beginning to see that. Right. That's really an interesting thing. What I have.
Dan Sullivan:
I mean, it's like I was reflecting on that because I've been coaching entrepreneurs for 50 years, and I've created lots of structures and created lots of tools for them. And so when you think about, I read a statistic and its function of, I think that higher education is not quite syncing with the marketplace, but in December of last year, there was that 45% of the graduates of the MBA, Harvard MBA school had not gotten jobs. This was six months later. They hadn't gotten jobs, 45% hadn't gotten jobs. And I said, well, what's surprising was these 45% hadn't already created a company while they were at Harvard Business School, and what are they looking for jobs for? Anyway, they be creating their own companies. But my sense is that what they've been doing is that they've been going to college to avoid having to go into the job market, and so they don't even know how to get, not only do they know how to create a company, they don't even know how to get a job.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. There's a new school concept, like a high school in, I think it's in Austin, Texas that is, I think it's called Epic, and they are teaching kids how they do all the academic work in about two hours a day, and then the rest of the time is working on projects and creating businesses, like being entrepreneurial. And I thought it's very interesting teaching people, if people could leave high school equipped with a way to add value in a way that they're not looking to plug their umbilical cord in someone else, be an amazing thing of just giving, because you think about it, high school kids can add value. You have value to contribute. You have even at that level, and they can learn their value contribution.
Dan Sullivan:
I think probably the mindset for that is already there at 10 years old, I think 10 years old, that an enterprise,
Dean Jackson:
Well, that's when the lemonade stands, right?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. An enterprise, an enterprising attitude is probably already there at 10 years old, and it'd be interesting to test for, I mean, I think Gino Wickman from EOS, when he was grad EOS, he created a test to see whether children have an entrepreneurial mindset or not, but I got to believe that you could test for that, that you could test for that. Just the attitude of creating value before I get any opportunity. I think you could build a psychological justice
Speaker 1:
Around
Dan Sullivan:
That and that you could be feeding that. I mean, we have the Edge program in Strategic Coach. It's 18 to 24 and unique ability and the four or five concepts that you can get across in the one day period, but it makes sense. Our clients tell us that it makes a big difference. A lot of 'em, they're 18 and they're off to college or something like that,
Speaker 1:
And
Dan Sullivan:
To have that one day of edge mind adjustment mindset adjustment makes a big difference how they go through university and do that, Jim, but Leora Weinstein said that in Israel, they have all sorts of tests when you're about 10, 12, 13 years old, that indicates that this is a future jet pilot. This is a future member of the intelligence community. They've already got 'em spotted early. They got 'em spotted 13, 14 years old, because they have to go into the military anyway. They have everybody at the 18 has to go in the military. So they start the screening really early to see who are the really above average talent, above average mindset.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. The interesting, I mean, I've heard of that, of doing not even just military, but service of public service or whatever being as a mandatory thing.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, I went through it.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah, you did. Exactly.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard to say because it was tumultuous times, but I know that when I came out of the military, I was 23 when I came out 21, 21 to 23, that when I got to college at 23, 23 to 27, you're able to just focus. You didn't have to pay any attention to anything going outside where everybody was up in arms about the war. They were up in arms about this, or they're up in arms about being drafted and everything else, and just having that. But the other thing is that you had spent two years putting up with something that you hadn't chosen, hadn't chosen, but you had two years to do it. And I think there's some very beneficial mindsets and some very beneficial habits that comes from doing that,
Dean Jackson:
Being constraints, being where you can focus on something. Yeah. That's interesting. Having those things taken away.
Dan Sullivan:
And it's kind of interesting because you talk every once in a while in Toronto, I've met a person maybe in 50 years I've met, and these were all draft dodgers. These were Americans who moved to Canada, really to the draft, and I would say that their life got suspended when they made that decision that they haven't been able to move beyond it emotionally and psychologically
Dean Jackson:
Wild and just push the path,
Dan Sullivan:
And they want to talk about it. They really want to talk about it. I said, this happened. I'm talking to someone, and they're really emotionally involved in what they're talking about
Dean Jackson:
55 years ago now.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, it's 55 years ago that this happened, and they're up in arms. They're still up in arms about it and angry and everything else. And I said, it tells me something that if I ever do something controversial, spend some time getting over the emotion that you went through and get on with life, win a lottery,
Dean Jackson:
That's a factor change. I think all you think about those things,
Dan Sullivan:
But the real thing of how your life can be suspended over something that you haven't worked through the learning yet. There's a big learning there, and the big thing is that Carter, when he was president, late seventies, he declared amnesty for everybody who was a draft dodge so they could go back to the United States. I mean, there was no problem. They went right to the Supreme Court. They didn't lose their citizenship. Actually, there's only one thing that you can lose your, if you're native born, like you're native born American, you're born American with American
Speaker 1:
Parents,
Dan Sullivan:
You're a 100% legitimate American. There's only one crime that you can do to lose your citizenship.
Dean Jackson:
What's that?
Dan Sullivan:
Treason.
Dean Jackson:
Treason. Yeah, treason. I was just going to say
Dan Sullivan:
That. Yeah. If you don't get killed, it's a capital crime. And actually that's coming up right now because of the discovery that the Obama administration with the CIA and with the FBI acted under false information for two years trying to undermine Trump when he got in president from 17 to 19, and it comes under the treason. Comes under the treason laws, and so Obama would be, he's under criminal investigation right now for treason.
Dean Jackson:
Oh, wow.
Dan Sullivan:
And they were saying, can you do that to a president, to his former president? And so the conversation has moved around. Well, wouldn't necessarily put him in prison, but you could take away his citizenship anyway. I mean, this is hypothetical. My sense is won't cut that far, but the people around him, like the CIA director and the FBI director, I can see them in prison. They could be in prison. Wow. Yeah, and there's no statutes of limitation on this.
Dean Jackson:
I've noticed that Gavin Newsom seems to have gotten a publicist in the last 30 or 60 days.
Dan Sullivan:
Yes, he is.
Dean Jackson:
I've seen
Dan Sullivan:
More. He's getting ready for 28.
Dean Jackson:
I've seen more Gavin Newsom in the last 30 days than I've seen ever of him, and he's very carefully positioning himself. As I said to somebody, it's almost like he's trying to carve out a third party position while still being on the democratic side. He's trying to distance himself from the wokeness, like the hatred for the rich kind of thing, while still staying aligned with the LGBT, that whole world,
Speaker 1:
Which
Dean Jackson:
I didn't realize he was the guy that authorized the first same sex marriage in San Francisco when he was the mayor of San Francisco. I thought that was it. So he's very carefully telling all the stories that position, his bonafides kind of thing, and talking about, I didn't realize that he was an entrepreneur, para restaurants and vineyards.
Dan Sullivan:
I think it's all positive for him except for the fact of what happened in California while it was governor.
Dean Jackson:
And so he's even repositioning that. I think everybody's saying that what happened, but he was looking, he's positioning that California is one of the few net positive states to the federal government,
Dan Sullivan:
But not a single voter in the United States That,
Dean Jackson:
Right. Very interesting. That's why he's telling the story.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah
Dean Jackson:
Fair. They contribute, I think, I don't know the numbers, but 8 billion a year to the federal government, and Texas is, as the other example, is a net drain on the United States that they're a net taker from the federal government. And so it's really very, it's interesting. He's very carefully positioning all the things, really. He's speaking a thing of, because they're asking him the podcasts that he is going on, they're kind of asking him how the Democrats have failed kind of thing. And that's what, yeah,
Dan Sullivan:
They're at their lowest in almost history right now. Yeah. Well, he can try. I mean, every American's got the right to try, but my sense is that the tide has totally gone against the Democrats. It doesn't matter what kind of Democrat you want to position yourself at. I mean, you'll be able to get a feel for that with the midterm elections next November.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. That's
Dan Sullivan:
Not this November. This November, but no, I think he could very definitely win the nomination. There's no question the nomination, but I think this isn't just a lot of people misinterpret maga. MAGA is the equivalent to the beginning of the country. In other words, the putting together the Constitution and the revolution and the Constitution and starting new governor, that was a movement, a huge movement. That was a movement that created it. And then the abolition movement, which put the end to slavery with the Civil War. That was the second movement. And then the labor movement, the fact that labor, there was a whole labor movement that Franklin Roosevelt took and turned it into what was called the New Deal in the 1930s. That was the movement. So you've had these three movements. I think Trump represents the next movement, and it's the complete rebellion of the part of the country that isn't highly educated against Gavin. Newsom represents the wealthy, ultra educated part of the country. I mean, he's the Getty. He's the Getty man. He's got the billions of dollars of the Getty family behind him. He was Nancy, Nancy Pelosi's nephew. He represents total establishment, democratic establishment, and I don't think he can get away from that.
Dean Jackson:
Interesting. Yeah, it's interesting to watch him try. I literally, I know more about him now than I've ever heard, and he's articulate and seems to be likable, so we'll see. But you're coming from this perception of, well, look what he did to California. And he's kind of dismantling that by saying, if only we could do to California, due to the country, what I've done to California. Well,
Dan Sullivan:
He didn't do anything for California. I mean, California 30 years ago was in incredibly better shape than California's right now. Yeah. The big problem was the bureaucrats run California. These are people who were left wing during the 1960s, 1970s, and they were the anti-war. I mean, it all started in California, the anti-war project, and these people graduated from college. First of all, they stayed in college as long as they could, and then they went into the government bureaucracy. So I mean, there's lifeguards in Los Angeles that make 500,000 a year.
Dean Jackson:
It's crazy, isn't it?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the extraordinary money that goes to the public service in California that's destroyed the state. But I mean, anybody can try.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
I remember after the Democratic Convention, Kamala was up by 10 points over Trump. Yes. Yeah, she's from San Francisco too.
Dean Jackson:
Yes, exactly. That's what he was saying, their history.
Dan Sullivan:
No, you're just seeing that because he started in South Carolina, that's where all his, because that's now the first state that counts on the nomination, but he's after the nomination right now. He's trying to position for the nomination. Anyway, we'll see. Go for it. Well, there you
Speaker 1:
Go.
Dan Sullivan:
And Elon Musk, he wants to start a new party. He can go for it too.
Dean Jackson:
Somebody. That's exactly right.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Then there's other people.
Dean Jackson:
That's true.
Dan Sullivan:
Alrighty, got to jump.
Dean Jackson:
Okay. Have a great week

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