Welcome to the second episode of Walking With the Tao, a podcast where two educators take hikes together and discuss the Tao Te Ching. In each episode, we choose a different passage and discuss it while we walk in nature. The conversations are wide ranging, relevant, and relatable. In this episode, we introduce the podcast and discuss section 80 of the Tao Te Ching while walking along the Hardage Mill and Noses Creek Trail at the foot of Little Kennesaw Mountain. Here’s the passage, from the Red Pine’s translation: Imagine a small state with a small population let there be labour-saving toolsthat aren't used let people consider death and not move farlet there be boats and carts but no reason to ride them let there be armour and weapons but no reason to employ themlet people return to the use of knots and be satisfied with their food and pleased with their clothingand content with their homes and happy with their customslet there be a state so nearpeople hear its dogs and chickens but live out their liveswithout making a visit You may have noticed that we are jumping around the Tao Te Ching rather than following a straight path through it from beginning to end. Each episode points the way to the next passage, and the next topic; we’re discovering the path as we go, intuitively, which is the perfectly natural way to travel. In episode one, we briefly discussed the penultimate passage, number 80, which visualizes what a perfect country might be if its people lived according to the Tao. Lao Tzu outlines a happy, contented community that lives a simple, agrarian lifestyle but with a twist: they have all of the necessary tools to travel, expand their territory, and save labor and time, but they choose not to use them. This forced restraint seems counter-intuitive, and certainly counter to the values of modern Western societies. If you have tools, why wouldn’t you use them? In our conversation, we discuss the relationship between simplicity and contentment. At what scale of living can we discover happiness? What does it mean to not use labor-saving tools in the age of digital technology? What does the simple life mean to Lao Tzu? What might it mean for us? A note about the title: The original title of this podcast was Thirty Spokes. We changed the title to Walking With the Tao in midstream. We decided not to edit out references to the original title. The music for the intro and outro comes from the song “Changes,” composed and recorded by ⁠Ryan Cherry⁠.

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