In the second half of this two-part series with Kate Hemat-Siraky from Zest People, Leon pivots from “boring but essential” compliance to the motivating half of People Experience (aka the dry, defunct term Human Resources) – Culture. They start by stressing that engagement only works if compliance is structurally sound – otherwise you’re “pouring into a bucket with a hole in it.” From there, they zoom into how engagement really shows up in a hospitality business: the journeys people take, how you measure how they feel, and how honestly you manage performance, potential and exit moments.They unpack people journeys as a full loop: recruitment, onboarding, growth & development – and crucially, off-boarding. Recruitment is framed as filtration, not desperation: values, service style (“warm vs cold” and “polished vs loose”), distance from work, and even the tone of your job ad should help people self-select in or out early. Onboarding is treated as a designed experience, not a scramble: clear day-0 / day-1 / day-7 / day-30 touchpoints, founder-led “why” messaging, buddies outside the department, and practical info (“where do I park, will I really finish at my rostered time?”) so new hires aren’t burning mental energy on avoidable anxiety. Off-boarding is reframed as a brand moment – alumni as your most frequent guests, best referrers and long-term ambassadors when endings are done well.From there, the conversation goes deep into measurement and leadership. Leon and Kate argue that you can’t run culture “on vibe” – you need systems: regular engagement pulses, happiness scores, eNPS, open comment boxes and the discipline to act on “we keep running out of pens” before it becomes a resignation. They distinguish management (skills like rostering and recruitment) from leadership (self-awareness, trust, emotional intelligence) and explore tools like the nine-box performance/potential grid and strengths-based coaching. The through-line: when you design people journeys end-to-end, measure how people feel, and build leaders who can give and receive feedback safely, you create the conditions for high engagement and genuinely great hospitality.The PAX Hospitality Podcast is produced by PAX and Craate Creative. Support for this podcast comes from Square and Brunswick Design and Innovation. Our music is produced by Patricia Heath and Mattias Westergren. PAX acknowledges the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people as the traditional custodians of the land on which we operate. We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging and to all First Nations People.

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