Dr. Jessica Johnson, professor and author of the book Biblical Porn sits down with Tim to discuss her book and interview with the Mars Hill Podcast. Tim and Jessica discuss what Mars Hill was like in the beginning in Seattle and how it attracted some many young adults. Tim and Jessica discuss the problems around Mark Driscoll's comments on women and men's objectification of them and how his sermons became so popular among white Evangelicals. Jessica, explains her interview with Christianity Today's podcast about Mars Hill and how she at first wasn't sure about the fourth episode but thought the fifth episode did put Mark's sermon clips in so that her words were backed up. Tim and Jessica discuss the fallout from Mars Hill and how the survivors of Mark Driscoll's abuse have never seen repentance from him. They also discuss how Mark has moved on to another church and is now taking up the cause of Christian Nationalism and criticism of CRT. Lastly, Jessica explains how her new research into Christian Nationalism outside the church will be the focus of her next book.

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