Joe welcomes a longtime friend Matthew Curtis (now leading digital experiences at Ford) for a candid, grounded conversation about burnout, bravery, and becoming.They unpack the shift from achievement-at-all-costs to authentic leadership, the difference between reinvention and rediscovery, and how humility turns empathy into action at work and at home.From therapy and coaching to Viktor Frankl, from office-kitchen anthropology (who really takes the last slice of cake?) to building products people actually want, this episode explores how dropping the mask creates real connection, better decisions, and a life that scales inward before it scales outward.

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