In this episode, we explore the biblical and historical foundations of Presbyterian church government through the lens of the three-office view—minister, ruling elder, and deacon. Joining us are two distinguished guests: Mark R. Brown, editor of Order in the Offices, and Gregory Edward Reynolds, contributor to the volume and editor of Ordained Servant: A Journal for Church Officers. Together, we discuss the scriptural and theological arguments for distinguishing the minister of the Word from the ruling elder, why this distinction matters for the health of the church, and the modern challenges facing Presbyterian polity. Brown shares insights from his decades-long defense of the three-office view, while Reynolds unpacks his essay, "Democracy and the Denigration of Office," explaining how cultural influences have shaped and distorted church governance. Whether you're a church officer, seminarian, or simply interested in Reformed ecclesiology, this conversation offers a compelling case for recovering the historic Presbyterian model of church leadership. Mark R. Brown is a minister in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. He is a graduate of Geneva College and Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. After completing his seminary education in 1977, he planted Westminster Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania, where he faithfully served as pastor for forty years until his retirement in 2017. Greg Reynolds is a minister in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church who has served as a church planter and pastor in both New York and New Hampshire. Before entering the ministry, he worked in the field of architecture. In addition to his pastoral work, he is the editor of Ordained Servant: A Journal for Church Officers, where he has contributed numerous essays on ecclesiology and pastoral ministry. Reynolds is the author of The Word Is Worth a Thousand Pictures: Preaching in the Electronic Age, which explores the impact of media on preaching and worship. His academic background includes studies at the Boston Architectural College, the L'Abri Fellowship, Covenant College (BA, 1975), Westminster Theological Seminary (MDiv, 1979), and Westminster Seminary in California (DMin, 2001)​. This is Christ the Center episode 899 (https://www.reformedforum.org/ctc899)

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