For this episode, we welcome Zelmira Crespi, Vanessa’s sister-in-law, mother of five and co-author of Happy Mom, Happy Kid. She tells of her journey into motherhood and what it was like to learn, in your late twenties, that your first born would have Down Syndrome. We talk about the blessing, chaos, madness and method of big nests, and what it means to not lose yourself inside them. Meanwhile, our kids decide to mirror the subject of the episode and barge at our door, barnacle up against us, and challenge the quiet of the episode. We even have a little bit of an echo in this one. Alas! That’s… reality, as Yoda mom says.

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