ZARZA We are Zarza, the prestigious firm behind major projects in information technology.
Listen "Unlocking Sales Success: Hiring and Retaining High-Performing Teams"
Episode Synopsis
In this episode of the Love Your Sales podcast, presented by Genhead, host Leighann discusses the intricacies of sales hiring and team building with guest Brian Maas, an expert in sales and leadership with over 26 years of experience. The conversation delves into the common pitfalls of sales hiring, the importance of creating detailed job descriptions, and the necessity of understanding the varying competencies required for different types of sales roles. Brian emphasizes the significance of proper onboarding, continuous coaching, and tailored motivational strategies. Additionally, the discussion touches on the need for a balanced compensation plan and the advantages of using specific sales talent assessments. The episode wraps up with actionable insights for founders, presidents, and sales managers aiming to build and scale high-performing sales teams.
Contact Brian -
Email - [email protected]
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmaas/
Website - www.intentionalselling.com
Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann
Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1
#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment #traininganddevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #salespodcast #salestraining
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Brian Moss. Brian specializes in empowering founders, presidents, and sales Managers to build and scale high performing sales teams with confidence, clarity, and intention. With over 26 years of expertise in sales and leadership, Brian has partnered with small to midsize businesses to implement a data-driven process to identify [00:02:00] interview.
Onboard high performing salespeople who will sell in your unique selling environment and equip business leaders with a scalable framework. His mission is help companies avoid bad sales hires and build strong, high performing sales teams. Welcome Brian. I am so excited to talk about this.
Brian Maas: Thank you for having me, and thank you for all that you do for the business community.
Leighann Lovely: Well, so let's jump in because, um, I, well, first why don't you. Tell us a little bit about, you know, your business, what you do, you know, how, I guess, well, we'll get into the, how you do this, but Yeah, yeah. Just, you know, kind of fill in some of the blanks.
Brian Maas: Yeah. So when I, when I decided to go on my own and, and start my own business, I wanted to help sales, uh, organizations just be more, uh, effective in how they grow sales and how they grow.
And one of the things I was realizing was. That one of the most costly mistakes that sales [00:03:00] organizations make, of course, is, uh, sales hiring. And, uh, through all the years that I've done sales hiring, I've just learned some of the do's and don'ts around it. Um, I've learned which tools and processes to use, and so I'm, uh, helping companies, uh, put those same processes and best practices into place so that they can avoid, of course, the high cost of sales turnover.
So that's, that's, that's what I do today.
Leighann Lovely: So it, we've all, I think anybody who's been in business or been working out in the world for as long as well, I have, um, I'll speak for myself. I won't date you. Um, I think we've all, um, experienced that. Sitting next to somebody who you're like, how is this guy still or gal, um, still working at this company, you know, in the sales capacity.
Yeah, why haven't they got, why haven't they gotten fired or how did they even get hired? Um, so I'm intrigued, [00:04:00] you know, how, and, and salespeople, people are notoriously great at being able to speak a great game. You know, my dad always used to say like, well, you can go and get any job you want because you're really good at selling yourself.
Right, right. So let's talk about that. How, you know, yeah. What do you, how do you help businesses with this?
Brian Maas: Well, I, I think this is twofold. You know, you, you touched on it really well in that salespeople are really good at selling themselves. I think sometimes they tend to think they're better than they really are.
They're going after maybe positions that they aspire to be in. Um, and yet you've got sales hiring managers who many of them just don't have a whole lot of experience in how to deal with. Those types of, uh, situations, they don't have a whole lot of experience in hiring salespeople. Salespeople are so much different to hire than anybody else in your business, [00:05:00] right?
I mean, they are the, the face of your business. They're the ones carrying your brand, your messaging, how they differentiate themselves and. There's just so many, uh, you know, founders, for example, who are getting out of founder led sales, and they, they need to hire somebody to kind of take over and they don't know what to look for In a, in a sales hire, you've got presidents who maybe have got two or three salespeople under them who have just, you know, they heard from somebody, Hey, this person sales really well, and so they just brought them on board.
Just because they sold well in another company or environment doesn't mean they're gonna sell well in your environment. And so there's all kinds of, um, things that you can do to make sure that that salesperson is gonna sell in your environment and, and, and, and get around this whole notion that the salesperson can sell anything, because that's just not true.
There's, there's so many different factors involved, so many different core competencies in selling. And, uh, a lot of companies just don't step back and say, well, [00:06:00] look, if we're gonna grow our sales, they've gotta understand what the criteria for that role looks like and make sure that they've got a plan in place for the type of person that they need in that role.
So, um, a lot of it is just understanding. How to avoid that gap between the salesperson, you know, thinking they're going above and beyond what they can sell and the hiring manager looking for those things that are gonna, you know, fit well in their business for this salesperson
Leighann Lovely: abs. Absolutely. And and the other, as you were saying that, I was thinking to myself like, what about the kind of sale?
Yeah. You know, there's, there's. And, and, and I'm sitting here thinking about like the sales jobs that I've had. There's that instantaneous sale where somebody is walking into a store. Um, yeah. And I, I, I cut my teeth at, at a Sam's Club where I was one of the little booths that would pop up and they're [00:07:00] introducing new products so that you've got, you know, a little booth that people walk in and you're like, Hey, try this.
It's brand new. Right. Cleaning product or makeup Yeah. Or new knives or whatever it Right.
Brian Maas: Yeah,
Leighann Lovely: and that's, it's people who are going to Sam's Club are looking, they're gonna spend money. They typically, when they walk into a Sam's Club or they walk into a Costco or one of the big box stores,
Brian Maas: right,
Leighann Lovely: they're looking to drop at least a hundred, two, three.
I mean, people go in there and drop thousands of dollars, right? Yeah.
Brian Maas: Yeah,
Leighann Lovely: so it's easy for you to really quickly go, Hey, here's a really awesome new set of knives, only 49 99, and people are like, oh, okay. And sometimes people will be like, oh, I'll buy three of 'em. That's a really good deal. It's like it's an instantaneous instant gratification kind of sale.
Then you've got the. This is a 3, 4, 6 week sales cycle. Then you've got the, this is a six month, year long. Then you've got the enterprise like mass sales where it's, you get in there and it's [00:08:00] a year long, sometimes two year long sales cycle to break into these massive companies. That's, those are.
Completely different mindset and discipline. You're, yeah. Mining and dining, these people, you are.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: I mean, so to try to hire somebody who's been in enterprise sales to sell that instantaneous, yeah, that probably, that may work. But to try to hire somebody who does the instantaneous sale. To the enterprise sale.
Brian Maas: Yeah. Yeah. You've all, you, you, you've heard about the, uh, the hunter versus the farmer, and then you've got, you know, someone who's just gonna take inbound leads from marketing and work those. You've got someone who's going to maybe go out and find new contacts or logos and then hand that off to an account manager.
Um, yeah, there's the, the, the length of your sales cycle, [00:09:00] the size of the sale that you're dealing with. All of those things factor into what are the competencies that you need from that salesperson to be able to do really well at that? How well are they that relationship building, you know, how well are they at actually reaching decision makers, getting commitment from the, from the buyer?
Um. There's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's selling competencies that fall into, you know, one of three categories. There's this will to sell, which is how committed are they, how motivated are they? Um, do they have the desire, do they have the right outlook? There's all kinds of things around sales, DNA you've probably heard, you know, like what are the self-limiting beliefs that keep us from selling?
Uh, you know, what are those things that get in the way? And then you got all the tactical, uh, pieces of, of those sales competencies, you know, getting to the decision maker and asking the right questions. How well can they ask consultative questions? How well can they, in those complex sales. Be able to make sure they've got the attention or understand the needs of all the different [00:10:00] stakeholders who are involved in that buying process.
So yeah, it goes, I mean, it's like a spider web. You've, you've gotta make sure you understand exactly what the role is gonna need right before you can even go out and, and, and hire somebody. And I think that's a big gap where a lot of hiring managers miss is they don't understand exactly what they're looking for.
So when it comes time to ask that sales person to come and, and say, Hey. How will you do what? Selling our product or service. The sales person's gonna go, wow. Yeah, I'm, I can do that. Right. They, they're just,
Leighann Lovely: well, I can sell anything I can. I'm great. Right. But I, I've also seen some of the most experienced salespeople who are used to selling to an owner walk into a room where all of a sudden they've got seven people sitting at the table and they freeze.
Brian Maas: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: And they're like, oh, wait, I, I. Um, I didn't expect that. I, I, and it's like. So [00:11:00] you've never given a presentation to Right. A boardroom.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: Because that's also really intimidating to, especially when you have somebody, you know, one or two, and this has happened to me, where you've got five people at the table.
Table and then the two people in the back with their arms crossed, just staring. Right. Or half, you know, half falling asleep or something. And you're like, why are they, why are they here? Yeah. Um, and that, again, that's another, another competency where you don't, you don't think about it. You're like, oh, okay, well you're gonna be selling this.
Have you done, you know, have you sold to a group? Yeah. Have you presented to a large group? And that in itself can be intimidating.
Brian Maas: Very much so. And you know, I find too that there's a lot of salespeople out there that. They haven't had a formal sales training on just how to, how to sell the [00:12:00] methodology.
You know, the, the, the tactical, what happens in that dialogue with a buyer. You know, some do really, really well at, you know, engaging and asking the right questions. But unfortunately a lot of salespeople start out with that prospect and say, well, lemme tell you how great our product is and let me, let me open up my pres my PowerPoint presentation and start, you know, telling you.
You know, why you need what we're selling. It is just you, you've gotta flip the script on that, obviously. Right. So, um, you know, part of that interviewing process has got to be doing an audition in a way, you know, turning that interview into an audition and, and setting that sales person up so that they have to kind of prove to you that they've got the experience or the skills or the tactical, uh, expertise around.
How to engage that prospect in the right conversation too. Touched on something else about, you know. I, I if, if you, if you don't know like what your average sales size is or [00:13:00] how long your sales cycle is, or the personas of the people who you're going after, that's a really imp important part of the sales hiring manager knowing.
Um, you know, what that sales person needs to be engaged with. So, you know, how difficult is the sale? You know, are they gonna work the whole length of the sale themselves or are they gonna have a sales engineer or some subject matter expert coming into the sales process at some point in time? So there's a lot of factors that have to be thought through before you can even determine, you know, what, what, you know, going out and finding that sales person to start the interviewing process.
Leighann Lovely: So this, this, you, it just triggered a, an interesting story, Brian in my head. So, and this was a battle, I was a young salesperson. This was probably, um, this was years ago. I was in my first real sales role. I was, I was rocking it, I was doing really well. And, um, there was a whole new loop thrown in, or a whole new, I should say, not loop the, the whole new.[00:14:00]
Uh, challenge, I guess thrown in. Yeah. At me when, um, one of our, a new manager had come in and she had recommended that a new person start doing demos and this person, um, while be it was really good at their job, um, did not know how to. Present in front of people did not know the difference between training and demoing.
And I remember the first time she's like, yeah, take her out. She's gonna do the demo. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's fine. You know, it'll, that'll take some of the stress off of me of having to set up the demo and everything else. And this was on a software that I was not part of this, I was specialized in the time in tenants.
This was on the actual payroll side that connected to it. And when she started doing this demo, it [00:15:00] went into like, here's where you enter in the name, here's where you enter in the email, here's where, and I'm like. Are we, are we doing a demo or are we doing an e like a training session. Right,
Brian Maas: right. And
Leighann Lovely: it, it got to the point where it was painful for me.
I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm, I'm wanna blow my own head off. Like, this is horrible. Right. And it tanked it like it tanked the sale. Yeah. And so I had, I went back to my manager and I'm like, I, I can't. I can't take this person on a sales, like on a demo anymore. And they're like, why? And, and basically they told me that I was being mean and that I that like, you can't, you can't say that about another employee.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like this is, this is what happened. Like, I'm not trying to be inappropriate. I'm just, and I got reprimanded for it and it was. Wait, but no, you don't like, no. Maybe I'm not saying it right because I'm new to this in like new to sales and stuff, but like, and so that's another aspect of it, like [00:16:00] yeah, you, you have to be hyper aware of the people in the room and their reactions.
Yeah. Like if you see people starting to, here's a perfect sign, if somebody has got one of their notebooks that you know that one of the ones that open. And all of a sudden they close it and they lean back from the table.
Brian Maas: That's a sign
Leighann Lovely: they're, they're ready to be done with the meaning.
Brian Maas: Right, right. You, you just
Leighann Lovely: lost them somewhere.
Exactly.
Brian Maas: Yeah. Like,
Leighann Lovely: I mean, body language speaks volumes, like you're probably not gonna get them back. Yeah, sorry. And we went off on a tangent. I wanna go back to the hiring portion of this, but Yeah, yeah. You triggered that story in my head and I was like, oh my gosh. I re, I remember. Um, so trying to take somebody, you know, out of their role and make them a salesperson.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: That is a dangerous thing as well. And I've seen that happen at companies. Yeah. Where they're like, oh, but [00:17:00] she's really great at training and stuff. Why don't we have her do this? Yeah. Be careful with that too.
Brian Maas: Yeah. I mean, you touched on something though too, because that's a good part of the interviewing process for salespeople is, is, is identifying those things.
You know, you, you find the salespeople who are way too wordy and they keep talking and talking and talking, you know, and then you find the ones that are, they're, they're, they're too succinct in their answers. Um, and, and little things like that. It's, it's the, it's the visual cues and things that you wanna look for, because in the interview process, it doesn't get any better than the face-to-face interview.
Mm-hmm. If you're seeing things that are a red flag. You know, you've, you've gotta, you gotta be able to call that out or at least, you know, dock 'em for that. And it's not me neither. That's just being very objective.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And again, this was a long, a very, very, very long time ago. Um, and, and I think, you know, now, and, and I was also young, you know, I think, oh, she's just young and she doesn't know what she's talking.
Okay, [00:18:00] well, yeah, now I'm, I'm a little older and I still remember that, but yeah. And, and that's. You when, when you are interviewing a salesperson, it's important that you are, are seeing them face to face, seeing their body language, seeing their, everybody's heard of the resting be face. Um, yeah. So that's another thing is that a salesperson has to be, they have to be engaged.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: And if that person doesn't look engaged or. Is constantly looking at their cell phone or is not right. Uh, the, and I've had that, I've had, where I had a sales call today on my cell phone and I said, hello. And he asked me a couple of questions and I was like, I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. And he goes, I'm sorry, can you hold please you?
No, I can't. No, you.[00:19:00]
Brian Maas: That's great.
Leighann Lovely: I'm like, click. I hung up. Like I, I mean,
Brian Maas: yeah.
Leighann Lovely: People today are so oblivious to the level of their importance to other people. Yes, yes. That the audacity that he would call me and then say, can you hold plea?
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: No, I cannot. I no. People, um. Salespeople think sometimes because a lot of salespeople have egos.
I mean, that's no,
gee, you know, I'm sorry guys. All you know, girls and gals out there who are in sales.
Brian Maas: So true.
Leighann Lovely: We do have a tendency to sometimes have egos. Um, we do sometimes have to be told like, Hey, you. You're not, you are [00:20:00] not what everybody, like, people don't necessarily, they're not flocking to you. Right. You are the least important person in that other person's world right now.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: And the only way you're gonna be become important is if you make them the most important person in the world.
Brian Maas: Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, people do business with people who they like and people do business with, people who are like themselves. So a lot of this comes down to how well do you bond and build rapport and find commonality.
And, and those are things even to look for in the, in the hiring. Hiring, um, you know, world too. You know, when they, when they, when you're first meeting somebody. So, um, yeah, that's really important.
Leighann Lovely: So let me ask you, Brian, where do you, where do you start to find these people where, I mean, is there, is there like a best practice place to even begin because there's so much noise and so many rabbit holes [00:21:00] you could go down on the internet.
Yeah.
Brian Maas: Yeah. You know, um, the, the, the first reaction for everybody is, you know, post an ad on, on, on LinkedIn or Indeed or in one of those, you know, websites. And those are great. They're, they're okay. Um, LinkedIn's probably one of the best, but try to think outside the box. Where are the salespeople that you wanna hire hanging out?
Because you're not just looking for the people who are. Proactively looking on LinkedIn because they're out of a job, right? Um, there's plenty of people out there who are passively looking for their next big role. Where are they hanging out? Is it at the golf club? Is it at an association that you belong to?
Is it, it, it could be any number of places. It just kind of depends on your business and your industry and where you're at. But just getting creative and thinking outside the box a little bit about where some of the people that you're looking for might be hanging out, uh, and getting referrals. Um.
Sometimes you've [00:22:00] gotta go source 'em yourself. You know, you've gotta be more proactive to do a search on LinkedIn of people who are maybe in your industry or have the role that's similar to yours. But, um, yeah, I, I think a lot of it is, um, being able to, you know, read a good resume too when you've got, uh, an ad that's on LinkedIn or Indeed, uh, you get tons of resumes in and a lot of people don't know how to read a resume between the lines.
I've never seen a bad sales resume. No, they all look stellar, you know? Right. You know, so what, what are you looking for on that resume? You know, so there's a, there's a lot of a lot of things to be thinking about, but to answer your question, um, you know, just try and get creative and think about where those sales people are hanging out that you wouldn't have otherwise found for sure.
Leighann Lovely: Again, it comes down to salespeople are brilliant at selling themselves, not only in person, but also on paper. Because they know exactly what to say and what to do in order to get [00:23:00] hired. Doesn't mean that they are necessarily the right person for the criteria, which means I'm gonna guess that you're gonna also be you when a job description is written.
Is there anything that you would recommend for those people hiring?
Brian Maas: Yes, because if you look at most job postings today, they're all the same. They talk about the company, they talk about the roles and responsibilities they got the benefits, you know. They don't, they don't excite a salesperson. Right? So writing that job description or that job posting should have words in their like.
You get excited about calling on new prospects, or you get jazzed or energized by, you know, solving problems for clients. And, and that ad [00:24:00] should, should cover all the things that we've talked about in the role criteria that they're going to be doing. You know, um, you're motivated by money, you're, you're excited about, you know, reaching out to new people and building relationships.
Um, you love to follow up on inbound leads, you know. Things that a sales person's gonna read to go, oh, this is me. They're talking about me. You know? Mm-hmm. Not a list of roles and responsibilities, you know, or the, the company culture. Yes, that's important, but tell them exactly what the job is going to entail.
What are they gonna be doing? What are the things that are gonna get them excited and energized about the role? And once you've, and, and that's just trying to attract the right candidate that that'll weed out the wannabes who we're looking at only the, you know, the culture and the benefits and how much they're gonna get paid.
And they're not focusing as much on the, what am I actually going to be, you know, measured on and, and, and asked to do. So now [00:25:00] you've brought up another question.
Leighann Lovely: Okay. So I've had a lot of companies come to me, um, and say, you know. We're gonna drop our salaries across the board. Um, and, and they're newer companies and they don't have that big bloated budget where they're like, yeah, we're gonna pay a person a hundred thousand, $150,000 base and then commission.
Yeah. Which every sales person's like, oh yeah, great. $150,000 base plus commission. That's, that'll be awesome. Um, versus the $30,000 base and you have to work for it. But a lot more companies these days I'm hearing are saying, well, we're gonna pay a lower base because we want them to have to work for it.
Yeah. And I'm like, okay, that's, that's great. But. So are you, are you hearing more and more companies kind of doing that? Like, well, I, I need them to work for it. They like, we're gonna drop those salaries down because the salespeople really has to, I wanna only attract [00:26:00] somebody who knows that they're gonna have to work for it.
Brian Maas: Yeah. I mean, you gotta think about what. The role entails in terms of the behaviors you want because you want somebody to elicit those behaviors to go after the right level of, of selling. I don't hear companies necessarily, you know, lowering their base pay to increase their variable compensation as much as I hear.
It's gotten more competitive nowadays and they've actually gotta probably raise their base in order to attract the right candidate. But it's finding that right balance between the base pay and what you want them. To go and do in order to earn that variable compensation or that that commission or bonus or whatever the case it may be.
And there's just so many ways to structure a compensation plan today. Um, I, I just heard recently how some companies are, um, still trying to do a [00:27:00] commission only. You know, and it's like, I'm sorry, but we moved, we moved on from that years ago, and that's just not, and they're doing it because they don't wanna pay a salary, you know?
'cause they can't afford the salary. Right. Um, you've got 1% of people who will probably jump at that and that's just not gonna work and it's not gonna allow you to attract the right candidates, so.
Leighann Lovely: Right. No, I, people will come to me or I, again, I, I worked in the staffing industry for many years and commission only.
Um. I secretly would giggle at it and be like, who? Who are you trying to attract here? Right? Yeah. 'cause the idea of commission, people now need a living wage and with everything continuing just, just increase. People have to because yeah, in most, even in, even in the really quick turnaround sales, it. You can't go, there's still the learning curve.
Three, two, you know, four, four to six weeks. There's still a learning curve until you get at least [00:28:00] enough to come in. And that's on the quick sales.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Like if you're planning on not paying somebody any type of base whatsoever, then they're, they're not, you're not gonna get a quality Right. A quality person and you will continue to just churn and burn.
Yeah. Um, and that just costs, that, that literally costs your company money. Despite the fact that you're not co maybe not covering a base, you're still spending time training them at the expense of whoever's time is training them.
Brian Maas: Exactly. And I think on the flip side of that too, you've got, um, you know, people tend to pay too much in commissions.
I, I, I hear companies, you know, overpaying salespeople for very easy sales. In other words, if, if the, the less that your sales person is engaged in the sales process, the less variable comp or commission they should be getting paid. [00:29:00] So take somebody for example, where you've got an inbound lead. And it's a one call close.
You know that that shouldn't be a lot of commission on that sale versus the person who's spending 2, 3, 4 sales calls in a complex five month sale. Obviously that's gonna be a much bigger, you know. Uh, variable compensation, so,
Leighann Lovely: well, and I've, I've seen companies where they call the, the cold callers. The Biz dev who are scheduling the appointments aren't even making commission.
They're just a salaried employee who just sit and make calls. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, and then send it to the sales person, and you're like, wait a second, you aren't. Isn't the the person making the appointments, doing the
Brian Maas: Exactly.
Leighann Lovely: The most of the work.
Brian Maas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You gotta, they're
Leighann Lovely: doing, they're doing the kind of the crappy job,
Brian Maas: right?
Right. Well, you've, you've gotta reward your, your people for the right behaviors. And if, if, if, if the, if the cost of a customer is something [00:30:00] that, you know, you're trying to navigate, um, you, you've gotta look at that. As a piece of the compensation puzzle of how, how difficult it is to go find a new customer today.
I mean, we all know it's easy to grow existing accounts and, and, and marketing drives a lot of leads for some companies. But those companies that have to go out and find new logos, there's a high cost behind that. And so what that acquisition cost of that customer is, you've gotta be able to reward the salespeople for that behavior.
Um, and, and, and by the way, not all salespeople are motivated by money. A lot of salespeople today are motivated intrinsically, they just want to hear, Hey, you're doing a great job. Or they wanna see their name on the top of a leaderboard, or they wanna win a trip, or, you know, something tangible. It's, it's not always the money behind it either.
And those are important things to be looking for as you're, as you're putting together a comp plan and, and even interviewing your salespeople about, you know, what motivates them. Because if, if we're rewarding, what motivates them, that just makes the more, more likely that they're gonna stick around with you.[00:31:00]
Leighann Lovely: Oh, I loved the trips. You know, the top producers used to get, you know, a trip to, well it was different places, but, um, I, and one year I was pregnant and they even said, Hey, just because you can't make this year's, you know, company trip, we'll, we'll let you do it at a different time. And it was like, oh my God, that's so cool.
Yeah, exactly. You know, and I was, I mean, I was like big pregnant, like, not like, oh, I can still go. I was like, you know, ready to pop. It's not safe to travel kind of pregnant, so. Right, right. You know, and I loved being, I loved those trips. I loved like, oh yeah, I'm gonna make it this year. I'm like, and then there was other years where it's like, oh, I might not do it.
And then it like at the last second, or, and then there was years where it's like, oh, I've already got that in the bag.
Brian Maas: Yeah, right.
Leighann Lovely: You know, so, and. Again, I still loved my commission. I am definitely a money driven person, but sure, you're, you're completely correct. Not everybody is driven by money, and you can't not hire somebody [00:32:00] if money is not their number one motivator.
Right. Because some companies will be like, well, I want money to be your motivator. Yeah. Well, what if it's not? What if exactly. I'm okay with my a hundred thousand dollars salary, but my motivator is x. Yeah, as long as it's not that I just am okay with making a hundred thousand dollars and I don't wanna go out and sell.
Brian Maas: Yeah,
Leighann Lovely: because that's a problem too.
Brian Maas: Yeah. And a lot of that comes into play too, with the coaching that's happening with these salespeople that you're bringing on board too. It, it's understanding what motivates them and, you know, supporting them and helping them, making sure that, you know, they, there aren't hurdles in their way to accomplishing their goal.
You know, it's, it's one thing to hire the right person, but you know, it's the, it's the onboarding. Piece of this too that I think a lot of companies forget about and understanding how to set that rep up for success. How to give them the tools and the resources they need and understand, you know, what that cadence with their [00:33:00] manager is gonna look like in terms of what expectations need to be set and how they're gonna be held accountable, how they're gonna be measured.
All of that is really important. Once you get this, this person onboarded
Leighann Lovely: and, and Brian, that is a, an entire nother conversation when you said, yeah, it is how you're gonna coach that person. Because we could, we could go on for another hour about the amount of companies that hire and then don't coach and just go, yes, here's what you're selling.
Good luck.
Brian Maas: Yeah, yeah. You know, and some people run into issues. Issues with hiring and, and it's, it's, it's, uh, it's on them because they didn't do the right job. And, and sometimes it's, yeah, the sales person didn't have, you know, wasn't, had the expectations set for them and they get into a role and go, oh gosh, this isn't what I was sold, or this isn't what I was expecting, or, I'm not getting the support that I need from my manager and they leave.
Right. So there's, there's a balance there. And that's, that's I think where some companies struggle to figure out, you know, we got a hiring problem. Is it my process? Is it the people I'm hiring or is it. As a company and a [00:34:00] culture and how we coach, you know? So there's a lot, there's a lot to that. This isn't easy stuff.
Leighann Lovely: No, no, it's not. Now, do you recommend any type of, um, personality assessments, any type of, um, you know, the big one obviously is, um, di you know, disc, but there's, yeah, God, there's so many of them out there now.
Brian Maas: Um, there's only, the one that I use is by a company called the Objective Management Group. And it is a candidate assessment, uh, that measures 21 core competencies of sales, and it's only measuring core competencies of sales.
In fact, it's the only one in the world that just measures sales competencies. It's not personality or behavioral stuff. It's can this person sell in your environment? And it, and it measures not only their sales skills, but how well they. Will perform in a particular company based on that company's role criteria.
So it's a, it's a pretty cool assessment, but I, I, I do recommend [00:35:00] that as part of any hiring process because it does help weed out, you know, think of it as a, as a, as an MRIA doctor can't see below the surface. So they've gotta kind of do an X-ray, right. And a, a sales talent assessment is just that. It's getting below the surface.
It's finding those things that are very difficult for a, a hiring manager to interview for because we can't see the self-limiting beliefs or we can't see the level of commitment, motivation, desire that a sales person has. Those are very hard things to interview for. So, uh, yeah, to your point, uh, using a tool like that is, is gonna be really beneficial in the process.
Leighann Lovely: And what is that one called again?
Brian Maas: Uh, the company's called Objective Management Group, and it is a sales candidate assessment. Um, they've been around 35, 40 years. They've, uh, assessed two and a half million salespeople with 36,000 customers. It's been validated by multiple PhD psychologists. Uh, so it's, it's been proven using scientific data to make sure that the candidate you're bringing [00:36:00] on matches up against what it is you're trying to, trying to hire.
Leighann Lovely: I am wildly interested in that. Now. I'm now I'm gonna be looking into that one. Yes. Well, we, we are coming to time. I, I, I mean, I wish time goes by way too fast.
Brian Maas: It goes by quick. Yes. We can talk about this all day.
Leighann Lovely: I know. I'm such a nerd. Um. But I'm happy that I'm this big of a nerd. Um, but Brian, this has been such an amazing conversation.
Yeah. And I wanna give you your 32nd shameless pitch so you can go for it.
Brian Maas: Yeah. Thank you. Well, you know, I, I think I, I got into this role because the cost of sales, uh, bad sales hires can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, um, I'm, I'm really focused on those founders, presidents, and even sales managers who.
Are struggling with bad sales hiring situations, and I take them through a, an objective driven process that helps 'em identify, [00:37:00] interview, and onboard a candidate who will sell at a high performance. Basis in their unique environment. But beyond that, it's also making sure they've got the right framework in their sales function to make sure that candidate is successful in terms of sales process metrics, coachability and trainability as well too.
So
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And if you wanna reach out to Brian, you can find, um, how to do that. Um, in the show notes, I will include his website, his email, and his LinkedIn so you can, um, reach out to Brian there. So awesome. Thank you again so much. This has been an awesome conversation.
Brian Maas: Thank you for having me. I enjoyed talking about it.
AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a [00:38:00] valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.
Accelerate your growth today and visit us at accelerategrowth45. com.
Robb Conlon: Thanks for joining us for Love Your Sales. For More, connect with Leanne on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a rating in review. We'd love to hear what you think, looking for a way to take your sales process to the next level. Visit [email protected] to find out more about how Leanne can take your organization to new Revenue Heights.
And be sure to join us next time for more great ways to love your customers so they love your [00:39:00] sales.
Contact Brian -
Email - [email protected]
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmaas/
Website - www.intentionalselling.com
Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com
Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489
Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann
Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1
#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment #traininganddevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #salespodcast #salestraining
Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Brian Moss. Brian specializes in empowering founders, presidents, and sales Managers to build and scale high performing sales teams with confidence, clarity, and intention. With over 26 years of expertise in sales and leadership, Brian has partnered with small to midsize businesses to implement a data-driven process to identify [00:02:00] interview.
Onboard high performing salespeople who will sell in your unique selling environment and equip business leaders with a scalable framework. His mission is help companies avoid bad sales hires and build strong, high performing sales teams. Welcome Brian. I am so excited to talk about this.
Brian Maas: Thank you for having me, and thank you for all that you do for the business community.
Leighann Lovely: Well, so let's jump in because, um, I, well, first why don't you. Tell us a little bit about, you know, your business, what you do, you know, how, I guess, well, we'll get into the, how you do this, but Yeah, yeah. Just, you know, kind of fill in some of the blanks.
Brian Maas: Yeah. So when I, when I decided to go on my own and, and start my own business, I wanted to help sales, uh, organizations just be more, uh, effective in how they grow sales and how they grow.
And one of the things I was realizing was. That one of the most costly mistakes that sales [00:03:00] organizations make, of course, is, uh, sales hiring. And, uh, through all the years that I've done sales hiring, I've just learned some of the do's and don'ts around it. Um, I've learned which tools and processes to use, and so I'm, uh, helping companies, uh, put those same processes and best practices into place so that they can avoid, of course, the high cost of sales turnover.
So that's, that's, that's what I do today.
Leighann Lovely: So it, we've all, I think anybody who's been in business or been working out in the world for as long as well, I have, um, I'll speak for myself. I won't date you. Um, I think we've all, um, experienced that. Sitting next to somebody who you're like, how is this guy still or gal, um, still working at this company, you know, in the sales capacity.
Yeah, why haven't they got, why haven't they gotten fired or how did they even get hired? Um, so I'm intrigued, [00:04:00] you know, how, and, and salespeople, people are notoriously great at being able to speak a great game. You know, my dad always used to say like, well, you can go and get any job you want because you're really good at selling yourself.
Right, right. So let's talk about that. How, you know, yeah. What do you, how do you help businesses with this?
Brian Maas: Well, I, I think this is twofold. You know, you, you touched on it really well in that salespeople are really good at selling themselves. I think sometimes they tend to think they're better than they really are.
They're going after maybe positions that they aspire to be in. Um, and yet you've got sales hiring managers who many of them just don't have a whole lot of experience in how to deal with. Those types of, uh, situations, they don't have a whole lot of experience in hiring salespeople. Salespeople are so much different to hire than anybody else in your business, [00:05:00] right?
I mean, they are the, the face of your business. They're the ones carrying your brand, your messaging, how they differentiate themselves and. There's just so many, uh, you know, founders, for example, who are getting out of founder led sales, and they, they need to hire somebody to kind of take over and they don't know what to look for In a, in a sales hire, you've got presidents who maybe have got two or three salespeople under them who have just, you know, they heard from somebody, Hey, this person sales really well, and so they just brought them on board.
Just because they sold well in another company or environment doesn't mean they're gonna sell well in your environment. And so there's all kinds of, um, things that you can do to make sure that that salesperson is gonna sell in your environment and, and, and, and get around this whole notion that the salesperson can sell anything, because that's just not true.
There's, there's so many different factors involved, so many different core competencies in selling. And, uh, a lot of companies just don't step back and say, well, [00:06:00] look, if we're gonna grow our sales, they've gotta understand what the criteria for that role looks like and make sure that they've got a plan in place for the type of person that they need in that role.
So, um, a lot of it is just understanding. How to avoid that gap between the salesperson, you know, thinking they're going above and beyond what they can sell and the hiring manager looking for those things that are gonna, you know, fit well in their business for this salesperson
Leighann Lovely: abs. Absolutely. And and the other, as you were saying that, I was thinking to myself like, what about the kind of sale?
Yeah. You know, there's, there's. And, and, and I'm sitting here thinking about like the sales jobs that I've had. There's that instantaneous sale where somebody is walking into a store. Um, yeah. And I, I, I cut my teeth at, at a Sam's Club where I was one of the little booths that would pop up and they're [00:07:00] introducing new products so that you've got, you know, a little booth that people walk in and you're like, Hey, try this.
It's brand new. Right. Cleaning product or makeup Yeah. Or new knives or whatever it Right.
Brian Maas: Yeah,
Leighann Lovely: and that's, it's people who are going to Sam's Club are looking, they're gonna spend money. They typically, when they walk into a Sam's Club or they walk into a Costco or one of the big box stores,
Brian Maas: right,
Leighann Lovely: they're looking to drop at least a hundred, two, three.
I mean, people go in there and drop thousands of dollars, right? Yeah.
Brian Maas: Yeah,
Leighann Lovely: so it's easy for you to really quickly go, Hey, here's a really awesome new set of knives, only 49 99, and people are like, oh, okay. And sometimes people will be like, oh, I'll buy three of 'em. That's a really good deal. It's like it's an instantaneous instant gratification kind of sale.
Then you've got the. This is a 3, 4, 6 week sales cycle. Then you've got the, this is a six month, year long. Then you've got the enterprise like mass sales where it's, you get in there and it's [00:08:00] a year long, sometimes two year long sales cycle to break into these massive companies. That's, those are.
Completely different mindset and discipline. You're, yeah. Mining and dining, these people, you are.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: I mean, so to try to hire somebody who's been in enterprise sales to sell that instantaneous, yeah, that probably, that may work. But to try to hire somebody who does the instantaneous sale. To the enterprise sale.
Brian Maas: Yeah. Yeah. You've all, you, you, you've heard about the, uh, the hunter versus the farmer, and then you've got, you know, someone who's just gonna take inbound leads from marketing and work those. You've got someone who's going to maybe go out and find new contacts or logos and then hand that off to an account manager.
Um, yeah, there's the, the, the length of your sales cycle, [00:09:00] the size of the sale that you're dealing with. All of those things factor into what are the competencies that you need from that salesperson to be able to do really well at that? How well are they that relationship building, you know, how well are they at actually reaching decision makers, getting commitment from the, from the buyer?
Um. There's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's selling competencies that fall into, you know, one of three categories. There's this will to sell, which is how committed are they, how motivated are they? Um, do they have the desire, do they have the right outlook? There's all kinds of things around sales, DNA you've probably heard, you know, like what are the self-limiting beliefs that keep us from selling?
Uh, you know, what are those things that get in the way? And then you got all the tactical, uh, pieces of, of those sales competencies, you know, getting to the decision maker and asking the right questions. How well can they ask consultative questions? How well can they, in those complex sales. Be able to make sure they've got the attention or understand the needs of all the different [00:10:00] stakeholders who are involved in that buying process.
So yeah, it goes, I mean, it's like a spider web. You've, you've gotta make sure you understand exactly what the role is gonna need right before you can even go out and, and, and hire somebody. And I think that's a big gap where a lot of hiring managers miss is they don't understand exactly what they're looking for.
So when it comes time to ask that sales person to come and, and say, Hey. How will you do what? Selling our product or service. The sales person's gonna go, wow. Yeah, I'm, I can do that. Right. They, they're just,
Leighann Lovely: well, I can sell anything I can. I'm great. Right. But I, I've also seen some of the most experienced salespeople who are used to selling to an owner walk into a room where all of a sudden they've got seven people sitting at the table and they freeze.
Brian Maas: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: And they're like, oh, wait, I, I. Um, I didn't expect that. I, I, and it's like. So [00:11:00] you've never given a presentation to Right. A boardroom.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: Because that's also really intimidating to, especially when you have somebody, you know, one or two, and this has happened to me, where you've got five people at the table.
Table and then the two people in the back with their arms crossed, just staring. Right. Or half, you know, half falling asleep or something. And you're like, why are they, why are they here? Yeah. Um, and that, again, that's another, another competency where you don't, you don't think about it. You're like, oh, okay, well you're gonna be selling this.
Have you done, you know, have you sold to a group? Yeah. Have you presented to a large group? And that in itself can be intimidating.
Brian Maas: Very much so. And you know, I find too that there's a lot of salespeople out there that. They haven't had a formal sales training on just how to, how to sell the [00:12:00] methodology.
You know, the, the, the tactical, what happens in that dialogue with a buyer. You know, some do really, really well at, you know, engaging and asking the right questions. But unfortunately a lot of salespeople start out with that prospect and say, well, lemme tell you how great our product is and let me, let me open up my pres my PowerPoint presentation and start, you know, telling you.
You know, why you need what we're selling. It is just you, you've gotta flip the script on that, obviously. Right. So, um, you know, part of that interviewing process has got to be doing an audition in a way, you know, turning that interview into an audition and, and setting that sales person up so that they have to kind of prove to you that they've got the experience or the skills or the tactical, uh, expertise around.
How to engage that prospect in the right conversation too. Touched on something else about, you know. I, I if, if you, if you don't know like what your average sales size is or [00:13:00] how long your sales cycle is, or the personas of the people who you're going after, that's a really imp important part of the sales hiring manager knowing.
Um, you know, what that sales person needs to be engaged with. So, you know, how difficult is the sale? You know, are they gonna work the whole length of the sale themselves or are they gonna have a sales engineer or some subject matter expert coming into the sales process at some point in time? So there's a lot of factors that have to be thought through before you can even determine, you know, what, what, you know, going out and finding that sales person to start the interviewing process.
Leighann Lovely: So this, this, you, it just triggered a, an interesting story, Brian in my head. So, and this was a battle, I was a young salesperson. This was probably, um, this was years ago. I was in my first real sales role. I was, I was rocking it, I was doing really well. And, um, there was a whole new loop thrown in, or a whole new, I should say, not loop the, the whole new.[00:14:00]
Uh, challenge, I guess thrown in. Yeah. At me when, um, one of our, a new manager had come in and she had recommended that a new person start doing demos and this person, um, while be it was really good at their job, um, did not know how to. Present in front of people did not know the difference between training and demoing.
And I remember the first time she's like, yeah, take her out. She's gonna do the demo. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's fine. You know, it'll, that'll take some of the stress off of me of having to set up the demo and everything else. And this was on a software that I was not part of this, I was specialized in the time in tenants.
This was on the actual payroll side that connected to it. And when she started doing this demo, it [00:15:00] went into like, here's where you enter in the name, here's where you enter in the email, here's where, and I'm like. Are we, are we doing a demo or are we doing an e like a training session. Right,
Brian Maas: right. And
Leighann Lovely: it, it got to the point where it was painful for me.
I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm, I'm wanna blow my own head off. Like, this is horrible. Right. And it tanked it like it tanked the sale. Yeah. And so I had, I went back to my manager and I'm like, I, I can't. I can't take this person on a sales, like on a demo anymore. And they're like, why? And, and basically they told me that I was being mean and that I that like, you can't, you can't say that about another employee.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like this is, this is what happened. Like, I'm not trying to be inappropriate. I'm just, and I got reprimanded for it and it was. Wait, but no, you don't like, no. Maybe I'm not saying it right because I'm new to this in like new to sales and stuff, but like, and so that's another aspect of it, like [00:16:00] yeah, you, you have to be hyper aware of the people in the room and their reactions.
Yeah. Like if you see people starting to, here's a perfect sign, if somebody has got one of their notebooks that you know that one of the ones that open. And all of a sudden they close it and they lean back from the table.
Brian Maas: That's a sign
Leighann Lovely: they're, they're ready to be done with the meaning.
Brian Maas: Right, right. You, you just
Leighann Lovely: lost them somewhere.
Exactly.
Brian Maas: Yeah. Like,
Leighann Lovely: I mean, body language speaks volumes, like you're probably not gonna get them back. Yeah, sorry. And we went off on a tangent. I wanna go back to the hiring portion of this, but Yeah, yeah. You triggered that story in my head and I was like, oh my gosh. I re, I remember. Um, so trying to take somebody, you know, out of their role and make them a salesperson.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: That is a dangerous thing as well. And I've seen that happen at companies. Yeah. Where they're like, oh, but [00:17:00] she's really great at training and stuff. Why don't we have her do this? Yeah. Be careful with that too.
Brian Maas: Yeah. I mean, you touched on something though too, because that's a good part of the interviewing process for salespeople is, is, is identifying those things.
You know, you, you find the salespeople who are way too wordy and they keep talking and talking and talking, you know, and then you find the ones that are, they're, they're, they're too succinct in their answers. Um, and, and little things like that. It's, it's the, it's the visual cues and things that you wanna look for, because in the interview process, it doesn't get any better than the face-to-face interview.
Mm-hmm. If you're seeing things that are a red flag. You know, you've, you've gotta, you gotta be able to call that out or at least, you know, dock 'em for that. And it's not me neither. That's just being very objective.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And again, this was a long, a very, very, very long time ago. Um, and, and I think, you know, now, and, and I was also young, you know, I think, oh, she's just young and she doesn't know what she's talking.
Okay, [00:18:00] well, yeah, now I'm, I'm a little older and I still remember that, but yeah. And, and that's. You when, when you are interviewing a salesperson, it's important that you are, are seeing them face to face, seeing their body language, seeing their, everybody's heard of the resting be face. Um, yeah. So that's another thing is that a salesperson has to be, they have to be engaged.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: And if that person doesn't look engaged or. Is constantly looking at their cell phone or is not right. Uh, the, and I've had that, I've had, where I had a sales call today on my cell phone and I said, hello. And he asked me a couple of questions and I was like, I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. And he goes, I'm sorry, can you hold please you?
No, I can't. No, you.[00:19:00]
Brian Maas: That's great.
Leighann Lovely: I'm like, click. I hung up. Like I, I mean,
Brian Maas: yeah.
Leighann Lovely: People today are so oblivious to the level of their importance to other people. Yes, yes. That the audacity that he would call me and then say, can you hold plea?
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: No, I cannot. I no. People, um. Salespeople think sometimes because a lot of salespeople have egos.
I mean, that's no,
gee, you know, I'm sorry guys. All you know, girls and gals out there who are in sales.
Brian Maas: So true.
Leighann Lovely: We do have a tendency to sometimes have egos. Um, we do sometimes have to be told like, Hey, you. You're not, you are [00:20:00] not what everybody, like, people don't necessarily, they're not flocking to you. Right. You are the least important person in that other person's world right now.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: And the only way you're gonna be become important is if you make them the most important person in the world.
Brian Maas: Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, people do business with people who they like and people do business with, people who are like themselves. So a lot of this comes down to how well do you bond and build rapport and find commonality.
And, and those are things even to look for in the, in the hiring. Hiring, um, you know, world too. You know, when they, when they, when you're first meeting somebody. So, um, yeah, that's really important.
Leighann Lovely: So let me ask you, Brian, where do you, where do you start to find these people where, I mean, is there, is there like a best practice place to even begin because there's so much noise and so many rabbit holes [00:21:00] you could go down on the internet.
Yeah.
Brian Maas: Yeah. You know, um, the, the, the first reaction for everybody is, you know, post an ad on, on, on LinkedIn or Indeed or in one of those, you know, websites. And those are great. They're, they're okay. Um, LinkedIn's probably one of the best, but try to think outside the box. Where are the salespeople that you wanna hire hanging out?
Because you're not just looking for the people who are. Proactively looking on LinkedIn because they're out of a job, right? Um, there's plenty of people out there who are passively looking for their next big role. Where are they hanging out? Is it at the golf club? Is it at an association that you belong to?
Is it, it, it could be any number of places. It just kind of depends on your business and your industry and where you're at. But just getting creative and thinking outside the box a little bit about where some of the people that you're looking for might be hanging out, uh, and getting referrals. Um.
Sometimes you've [00:22:00] gotta go source 'em yourself. You know, you've gotta be more proactive to do a search on LinkedIn of people who are maybe in your industry or have the role that's similar to yours. But, um, yeah, I, I think a lot of it is, um, being able to, you know, read a good resume too when you've got, uh, an ad that's on LinkedIn or Indeed, uh, you get tons of resumes in and a lot of people don't know how to read a resume between the lines.
I've never seen a bad sales resume. No, they all look stellar, you know? Right. You know, so what, what are you looking for on that resume? You know, so there's a, there's a lot of a lot of things to be thinking about, but to answer your question, um, you know, just try and get creative and think about where those sales people are hanging out that you wouldn't have otherwise found for sure.
Leighann Lovely: Again, it comes down to salespeople are brilliant at selling themselves, not only in person, but also on paper. Because they know exactly what to say and what to do in order to get [00:23:00] hired. Doesn't mean that they are necessarily the right person for the criteria, which means I'm gonna guess that you're gonna also be you when a job description is written.
Is there anything that you would recommend for those people hiring?
Brian Maas: Yes, because if you look at most job postings today, they're all the same. They talk about the company, they talk about the roles and responsibilities they got the benefits, you know. They don't, they don't excite a salesperson. Right? So writing that job description or that job posting should have words in their like.
You get excited about calling on new prospects, or you get jazzed or energized by, you know, solving problems for clients. And, and that ad [00:24:00] should, should cover all the things that we've talked about in the role criteria that they're going to be doing. You know, um, you're motivated by money, you're, you're excited about, you know, reaching out to new people and building relationships.
Um, you love to follow up on inbound leads, you know. Things that a sales person's gonna read to go, oh, this is me. They're talking about me. You know? Mm-hmm. Not a list of roles and responsibilities, you know, or the, the company culture. Yes, that's important, but tell them exactly what the job is going to entail.
What are they gonna be doing? What are the things that are gonna get them excited and energized about the role? And once you've, and, and that's just trying to attract the right candidate that that'll weed out the wannabes who we're looking at only the, you know, the culture and the benefits and how much they're gonna get paid.
And they're not focusing as much on the, what am I actually going to be, you know, measured on and, and, and asked to do. So now [00:25:00] you've brought up another question.
Leighann Lovely: Okay. So I've had a lot of companies come to me, um, and say, you know. We're gonna drop our salaries across the board. Um, and, and they're newer companies and they don't have that big bloated budget where they're like, yeah, we're gonna pay a person a hundred thousand, $150,000 base and then commission.
Yeah. Which every sales person's like, oh yeah, great. $150,000 base plus commission. That's, that'll be awesome. Um, versus the $30,000 base and you have to work for it. But a lot more companies these days I'm hearing are saying, well, we're gonna pay a lower base because we want them to have to work for it.
Yeah. And I'm like, okay, that's, that's great. But. So are you, are you hearing more and more companies kind of doing that? Like, well, I, I need them to work for it. They like, we're gonna drop those salaries down because the salespeople really has to, I wanna only attract [00:26:00] somebody who knows that they're gonna have to work for it.
Brian Maas: Yeah. I mean, you gotta think about what. The role entails in terms of the behaviors you want because you want somebody to elicit those behaviors to go after the right level of, of selling. I don't hear companies necessarily, you know, lowering their base pay to increase their variable compensation as much as I hear.
It's gotten more competitive nowadays and they've actually gotta probably raise their base in order to attract the right candidate. But it's finding that right balance between the base pay and what you want them. To go and do in order to earn that variable compensation or that that commission or bonus or whatever the case it may be.
And there's just so many ways to structure a compensation plan today. Um, I, I just heard recently how some companies are, um, still trying to do a [00:27:00] commission only. You know, and it's like, I'm sorry, but we moved, we moved on from that years ago, and that's just not, and they're doing it because they don't wanna pay a salary, you know?
'cause they can't afford the salary. Right. Um, you've got 1% of people who will probably jump at that and that's just not gonna work and it's not gonna allow you to attract the right candidates, so.
Leighann Lovely: Right. No, I, people will come to me or I, again, I, I worked in the staffing industry for many years and commission only.
Um. I secretly would giggle at it and be like, who? Who are you trying to attract here? Right? Yeah. 'cause the idea of commission, people now need a living wage and with everything continuing just, just increase. People have to because yeah, in most, even in, even in the really quick turnaround sales, it. You can't go, there's still the learning curve.
Three, two, you know, four, four to six weeks. There's still a learning curve until you get at least [00:28:00] enough to come in. And that's on the quick sales.
Brian Maas: Yeah.
Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Like if you're planning on not paying somebody any type of base whatsoever, then they're, they're not, you're not gonna get a quality Right. A quality person and you will continue to just churn and burn.
Yeah. Um, and that just costs, that, that literally costs your company money. Despite the fact that you're not co maybe not covering a base, you're still spending time training them at the expense of whoever's time is training them.
Brian Maas: Exactly. And I think on the flip side of that too, you've got, um, you know, people tend to pay too much in commissions.
I, I, I hear companies, you know, overpaying salespeople for very easy sales. In other words, if, if the, the less that your sales person is engaged in the sales process, the less variable comp or commission they should be getting paid. [00:29:00] So take somebody for example, where you've got an inbound lead. And it's a one call close.
You know that that shouldn't be a lot of commission on that sale versus the person who's spending 2, 3, 4 sales calls in a complex five month sale. Obviously that's gonna be a much bigger, you know. Uh, variable compensation, so,
Leighann Lovely: well, and I've, I've seen companies where they call the, the cold callers. The Biz dev who are scheduling the appointments aren't even making commission.
They're just a salaried employee who just sit and make calls. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, and then send it to the sales person, and you're like, wait a second, you aren't. Isn't the the person making the appointments, doing the
Brian Maas: Exactly.
Leighann Lovely: The most of the work.
Brian Maas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You gotta, they're
Leighann Lovely: doing, they're doing the kind of the crappy job,
Brian Maas: right?
Right. Well, you've, you've gotta reward your, your people for the right behaviors. And if, if, if, if the, if the cost of a customer is something [00:30:00] that, you know, you're trying to navigate, um, you, you've gotta look at that. As a piece of the compensation puzzle of how, how difficult it is to go find a new customer today.
I mean, we all know it's easy to grow existing accounts and, and, and marketing drives a lot of leads for some companies. But those companies that have to go out and find new logos, there's a high cost behind that. And so what that acquisition cost of that customer is, you've gotta be able to reward the salespeople for that behavior.
Um, and, and, and by the way, not all salespeople are motivated by money. A lot of salespeople today are motivated intrinsically, they just want to hear, Hey, you're doing a great job. Or they wanna see their name on the top of a leaderboard, or they wanna win a trip, or, you know, something tangible. It's, it's not always the money behind it either.
And those are important things to be looking for as you're, as you're putting together a comp plan and, and even interviewing your salespeople about, you know, what motivates them. Because if, if we're rewarding, what motivates them, that just makes the more, more likely that they're gonna stick around with you.[00:31:00]
Leighann Lovely: Oh, I loved the trips. You know, the top producers used to get, you know, a trip to, well it was different places, but, um, I, and one year I was pregnant and they even said, Hey, just because you can't make this year's, you know, company trip, we'll, we'll let you do it at a different time. And it was like, oh my God, that's so cool.
Yeah, exactly. You know, and I was, I mean, I was like big pregnant, like, not like, oh, I can still go. I was like, you know, ready to pop. It's not safe to travel kind of pregnant, so. Right, right. You know, and I loved being, I loved those trips. I loved like, oh yeah, I'm gonna make it this year. I'm like, and then there was other years where it's like, oh, I might not do it.
And then it like at the last second, or, and then there was years where it's like, oh, I've already got that in the bag.
Brian Maas: Yeah, right.
Leighann Lovely: You know, so, and. Again, I still loved my commission. I am definitely a money driven person, but sure, you're, you're completely correct. Not everybody is driven by money, and you can't not hire somebody [00:32:00] if money is not their number one motivator.
Right. Because some companies will be like, well, I want money to be your motivator. Yeah. Well, what if it's not? What if exactly. I'm okay with my a hundred thousand dollars salary, but my motivator is x. Yeah, as long as it's not that I just am okay with making a hundred thousand dollars and I don't wanna go out and sell.
Brian Maas: Yeah,
Leighann Lovely: because that's a problem too.
Brian Maas: Yeah. And a lot of that comes into play too, with the coaching that's happening with these salespeople that you're bringing on board too. It, it's understanding what motivates them and, you know, supporting them and helping them, making sure that, you know, they, there aren't hurdles in their way to accomplishing their goal.
You know, it's, it's one thing to hire the right person, but you know, it's the, it's the onboarding. Piece of this too that I think a lot of companies forget about and understanding how to set that rep up for success. How to give them the tools and the resources they need and understand, you know, what that cadence with their [00:33:00] manager is gonna look like in terms of what expectations need to be set and how they're gonna be held accountable, how they're gonna be measured.
All of that is really important. Once you get this, this person onboarded
Leighann Lovely: and, and Brian, that is a, an entire nother conversation when you said, yeah, it is how you're gonna coach that person. Because we could, we could go on for another hour about the amount of companies that hire and then don't coach and just go, yes, here's what you're selling.
Good luck.
Brian Maas: Yeah, yeah. You know, and some people run into issues. Issues with hiring and, and it's, it's, it's, uh, it's on them because they didn't do the right job. And, and sometimes it's, yeah, the sales person didn't have, you know, wasn't, had the expectations set for them and they get into a role and go, oh gosh, this isn't what I was sold, or this isn't what I was expecting, or, I'm not getting the support that I need from my manager and they leave.
Right. So there's, there's a balance there. And that's, that's I think where some companies struggle to figure out, you know, we got a hiring problem. Is it my process? Is it the people I'm hiring or is it. As a company and a [00:34:00] culture and how we coach, you know? So there's a lot, there's a lot to that. This isn't easy stuff.
Leighann Lovely: No, no, it's not. Now, do you recommend any type of, um, personality assessments, any type of, um, you know, the big one obviously is, um, di you know, disc, but there's, yeah, God, there's so many of them out there now.
Brian Maas: Um, there's only, the one that I use is by a company called the Objective Management Group. And it is a candidate assessment, uh, that measures 21 core competencies of sales, and it's only measuring core competencies of sales.
In fact, it's the only one in the world that just measures sales competencies. It's not personality or behavioral stuff. It's can this person sell in your environment? And it, and it measures not only their sales skills, but how well they. Will perform in a particular company based on that company's role criteria.
So it's a, it's a pretty cool assessment, but I, I, I do recommend [00:35:00] that as part of any hiring process because it does help weed out, you know, think of it as a, as a, as an MRIA doctor can't see below the surface. So they've gotta kind of do an X-ray, right. And a, a sales talent assessment is just that. It's getting below the surface.
It's finding those things that are very difficult for a, a hiring manager to interview for because we can't see the self-limiting beliefs or we can't see the level of commitment, motivation, desire that a sales person has. Those are very hard things to interview for. So, uh, yeah, to your point, uh, using a tool like that is, is gonna be really beneficial in the process.
Leighann Lovely: And what is that one called again?
Brian Maas: Uh, the company's called Objective Management Group, and it is a sales candidate assessment. Um, they've been around 35, 40 years. They've, uh, assessed two and a half million salespeople with 36,000 customers. It's been validated by multiple PhD psychologists. Uh, so it's, it's been proven using scientific data to make sure that the candidate you're bringing [00:36:00] on matches up against what it is you're trying to, trying to hire.
Leighann Lovely: I am wildly interested in that. Now. I'm now I'm gonna be looking into that one. Yes. Well, we, we are coming to time. I, I, I mean, I wish time goes by way too fast.
Brian Maas: It goes by quick. Yes. We can talk about this all day.
Leighann Lovely: I know. I'm such a nerd. Um. But I'm happy that I'm this big of a nerd. Um, but Brian, this has been such an amazing conversation.
Yeah. And I wanna give you your 32nd shameless pitch so you can go for it.
Brian Maas: Yeah. Thank you. Well, you know, I, I think I, I got into this role because the cost of sales, uh, bad sales hires can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, um, I'm, I'm really focused on those founders, presidents, and even sales managers who.
Are struggling with bad sales hiring situations, and I take them through a, an objective driven process that helps 'em identify, [00:37:00] interview, and onboard a candidate who will sell at a high performance. Basis in their unique environment. But beyond that, it's also making sure they've got the right framework in their sales function to make sure that candidate is successful in terms of sales process metrics, coachability and trainability as well too.
So
Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And if you wanna reach out to Brian, you can find, um, how to do that. Um, in the show notes, I will include his website, his email, and his LinkedIn so you can, um, reach out to Brian there. So awesome. Thank you again so much. This has been an awesome conversation.
Brian Maas: Thank you for having me. I enjoyed talking about it.
AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a [00:38:00] valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.
Accelerate your growth today and visit us at accelerategrowth45. com.
Robb Conlon: Thanks for joining us for Love Your Sales. For More, connect with Leanne on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a rating in review. We'd love to hear what you think, looking for a way to take your sales process to the next level. Visit [email protected] to find out more about how Leanne can take your organization to new Revenue Heights.
And be sure to join us next time for more great ways to love your customers so they love your [00:39:00] sales.
More episodes of the podcast Love Your Sales
Sales Talk: The Art of Finding Ideal Clients
08/10/2025
The Art of Influence in Sales
10/09/2025
In God we trust