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Gissele : [00:00:00] Was Martin Luther King Jr. Right? Does love have the power to turn an enemy into a friend? Does it have the power to heal? We are creating an inspiring documentary called Courage to Love. The Power of Compassion explores the extraordinary stories of individuals who have chosen to do the unthinkable, love and forgive even those who have caused the most deep harm.
Through their journeys, we will uncover the profound impact of forgiveness and love, not only on those offering it, but also on those receiving it. In addition, we’ll hear from experts who will explore whether loving compassion are part of our human nature and how we can bridge divides with those we disagree with.
If you’d like to support our film, please donate at www MAI tt R-I-C-E-N-T-R e.com/documentary. [00:01:00] Hello and welcome to The Love and Compassion Podcast with Gissele. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world. Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content.
Today we’re talking about not feeling good enough and what we can do to start feeling better. Our guest today is Sabrina Trobak Based out of Fort St. John BC Canada is a registered clinical counselor and author of the book, not Good enough, understanding Your Core Belief in Anxiety. She’s also a clinical supervisor, public speaker, and holds a master’s degree in counseling psychology.
Before establishing her practice, she dedicated over 20 years to education, serving as a teacher, vice principal, school counselor across three school divisions. Sabrina, has extensive training in addressing trauma in its effects on daily life, [00:02:00] including anxiety and the core beliefs.
Of not being good enough, not important, not valued. Her counseling agency Trobak. Holistic counseling aims to help individuals identify, challenge, and transform these core beliefs into being good enough, important enough, and value. Please join me in welcoming Sabrina. Hi, Sabrina.
Sabrina: Hi. Nice to be here.
It’s nice to meet you.
Gissele : Oh, nice to meet you too. Thank you for being on the show. I was wondering if you could start by telling the audience what sort of led you to do this sort of work?
Sabrina: I always wanted to be a teacher, you know, even in kindergarten, I was the kindergartner helper that helped other kids tie their shoes.
Just was always something I wanted to do is be a teacher. Towards the end of my teaching career, I was a school counselor. And even as a teacher, I was a learning assistant teacher, so I did a lot of work in smaller groups, working more individually with students. So you get [00:03:00] to create a much deeper connection because you’re working one-on-one as opposed to a class size of, you know, 25, 30, 35, whatever it might be.
And so then I went into counseling. Same thing. You really get to build that relationship. And then I went to a workshop on suicide. That was looking at suicide, more of a symptom of that core belief. Feeling not good enough. Not important, not valued. At the end of the workshop, I just thought, this is what I need to do.
So the presenter, Tony Martins taught me his model of therapy. I quit teaching and started my own private practice, which really uses that as the focus point. So really going back and helping people understand and support and challenge that core belief. I started my own private practice in 2010.
And within about six months I had a waiting list and I hated having to turn people away. The model I practice where we’re really addressing that core belief is a long-term model of [00:04:00] therapy. So a lot of my clients are with me a year and a half, two years, sometimes even longer. And so I decided to write the book not good enough as a way to provide a resource for people who can access counseling for whatever reason.
Gissele : That’s beautiful. Thank you. And reflecting on your teaching experience, did you find that students were suffering from not feeling good enough? And do you think that’s changed?
Sabrina: Students, teachers, parents, administration, support staff? Yeah, it’s kind of a worldwide thing. You know, I think it’s been there for a really long time.
I think what we’re seeing a difference in is. People are talking more about mental health. So rather it being this thing that we just kept down and suppressed and pretended wasn’t an issue. Now we’re talking about it and the problem with that is we don’t necessarily know what to do with it now that we’re talking about it.
So it seems like it’s kind of imploding all over the place. But you know, I think it’s been going on forever and [00:05:00] ever, and ever and ever. In fact, your core belief develops based on your parents’ core belief. If your parents’ core belief was not good enough, not important, not valued, they can’t really teach you anything else.
So that means that was that generation. Well, where did they get it from? Their generation, and it just kind of goes on and on and on and on.
Gissele : I really appreciated that you said that. ’cause that has been my experience that we are just now vocalizing the fact that we have these feelings.
And to some people it’s like, we didn’t have these things before. That’s just simply not true. It’s just that now it’s feeling safer to talk about it. We want to address the issues and want to understand where this sort of came from. I wanted to really. Touch on the concept of not good enough.
Because at least in my experience, I wasn’t that sort of person that criticized themselves. I didn’t say call myself a loser. My not good enough actually showed up in a very different way, in a [00:06:00] very covert way. I would say in terms of limiting my dreams or really negative thinking in terms of like catastrophizing.
 how does not feeling good enough show in different people? is there specific patterns or is it just very different depending on the person?
Sabrina: I think the main pattern is it holds you back. it doesn’t allow you to feel content, feel peaceful, feel confident.
That would be a common pattern, but what that can look like can vary significantly. Also, the degree of your core belief can play a significant role as well. You might be feeling, you know, actually pretty good enough, important and valued just once in a while. That not good enough, not important, not value comes up.
All the way to the other where really everything, every thought you have is reinforcing and supporting that not good enough, not important, not valued. So it can look like a variety of different ways. We get clients who come into counseling for all kinds of different things. [00:07:00] Relationship issues, anxiety, depression.
They can’t really sleep. They’re having nightmares. Pornography gambling, alcohol, drugs, cheating, lying you name it, all kinds of different things. What we say is. These aren’t really the problem. These are the symptoms of that core belief. If your core belief is not good enough, not important, not valued, you need to distract, but you’re gonna be going to things that allow you to distract that ultimately end up reinforcing that core belief because it gives you something to beat yourself up over.
Hmm. So it can look like a variety of different behaviors For sure.
Gissele : Do you ever see people with like health issues?
Sabrina: Oh, all the time, for sure. Mm-hmm. Stomach issues, headaches, sore aches and pains. What happens when with that core belief not good enough? it creates a lot of self-doubt and insecurity.
Anxiety is lack of [00:08:00] confidence. Not believing in yourself. You can handle something. A lot of people think anxiety is about the trigger, right? I have anxiety of driving on the highway. If it really was about driving on the highway, then no one would be driving on the highway. So it’s not about that. It’s about my belief and my ability to handle it.
So if I believe I can handle driving on the highway, I’m not gonna have anxiety. If I can’t, I believe I can’t handle it. I will have anxiety. So that anxiety, that self-doubt, every time we go into anxiety, that fight, flight, freeze, adrenaline gets dumped into our body. That gives us that boost of energy to fight or to run away.
But if I’m creating all of this anxiety in my head through my own thoughts, or it’s creating a sense of danger, I think I’m in danger, but I’m not really in danger. It’s the catastrophizing thoughts, the negative thoughts, the beating yourself up, the what if scenarios. Every time you go into that fight, flight, freeze, that adrenaline, that energy has to come from somewhere.[00:09:00]
So what happens is it zaps all of our non-vital organs. Stomach, bladder, pancreas, kidney, liver, skin all of our non-vital organs get zap of energy. So if you have really high anxiety where you’re going into this fight, flight, freeze response, hundreds of times a day, you are going to see a physical impact.
Absolutely. You know, if your stomach is being zapped a hundred times a day, don’t expect it to digest food properly. That’s, it’s just not gonna work.
Gissele : Oh, thank you for that. I really
appreciate that. That also got me to think about my experiences with trust.
 I used to have huge trust issues ’cause I was raised with like, my parents also had views and trauma and, it was when I realized that I didn’t trust myself to deal with people’s betrayal, not necessarily trusting the other people, that things shifted for me. It was me realizing that it was like, oh, this is about me.
This isn’t about them. And their behavior, whatever they choose to do, is [00:10:00] entirely up to them. if they choose to betray me, well then that’s their choice. But it was about me. What are some things that can help someone become more aware of whether or not. They’re not feeling good enough.
Sabrina: You know, I think that one, the one that you just kind of said where you don’t trust, you think you can’t trust in other people. Anything where you’re doing, where you’re focusing on others, blaming others caring to others, people pleasing for others, judging others, gossiping about others. All that time that you spend focusing on other people is all time.
You’re not spending on yourself. Why is that? It’s usually because that core belief is there. We don’t like ourselves, we don’t wanna deal with it, so we’re focusing on all these outward things. As long as you’re fo focusing outward, there’s likely a bit of that core belief going there, and it’s not gonna get better until you focus more inward.
Gissele : Mm, [00:11:00] yeah. To what extent do you feel like the systems we’ve created also perpetuate that, continue that belief? So not only the belief that kids were taught from their parents, but also when entering in these different systems that we have created.
Sabrina: You know, I think a, a lot of our systems are very symptom based. So, you know, I have anxiety. Okay, we’ll do these things to deal with the, anxiety you have depression. Okay, we’ll do these things to deal with the depression. You have anger, okay, here’s some anger management strategies, rather than really looking at why is it there in the first place.
What’s fueling those things? So our society in general often has a very bandaid, approach. Just put a bandaid on it. But if you have a wound and you just put bandaids on top of bandaids, on top of bandaids, that wound doesn’t just not heal. It gets worse, it gets more infected, it becomes more painful.
It creates more stress, more anxiety. [00:12:00] And so we really need to take that bandaid off. But our society, you know, even medical right? I have a sore throat, they just address the throat rather than looking at is there something going on that’s feeding that right? Yeah. our, policing system is all very reactive and again, very kind of punitive and system based rather than really what’s going on here, what’s feeding all of this underlying stuff.
Gissele : Yeah, and I think it comes from the separation from within ourselves, right? Like not really understanding or seeing ourselves holistically and our separation from each other and from nature.
And I think that’s kind of why we have these systems.
Sabrina: And
I think part of why we even have that system is because if I deal with the surface doesn’t create a lot of emotion. Mm. If I go a bit deeper, ooh, that creates more emotion, vulnerability, fear. Abandoned. Lonely. I don’t like to feel those emotions, so keep it surface.
Minimal emotions have to play. One of the [00:13:00] big things that drives that core belief and a big issue in our society is. We don’t really feel our emotions again, I think we’re getting better at talking about them, but now it’s almost like, oh, I’ve got emotion. I need to stop rather than I’ve got emotion. I need to feel it so I can move through it.
And so that emotion piece is massive. We keep things very surface, so we don’t really have to feel.
Gissele : Yeah, absolutely, as children, some of us were taught like, don’t feel or only limit the scope of emotions. You can feel these emotions are okay, these emotions are not.
And this took me a long while to realize that the reason why my emotions were limited, at least by my parents and people in my life. They didn’t have the emotional girth to be able to hold space for my difficult feelings. So they did not teach me how to hold space for my difficult feelings and how to hold space for my kids’ difficult feelings.
And so it was a journey where I really had to understand and it took me shifting my [00:14:00] perspective because I think originally I felt it was my fault, right? As I got older and became a parent, I realized, oh, they didn’t have the space, so they had to squash my emotions in order for them not to feel uncomfortable because they couldn’t cope with it.
Sabrina: If I’m as a parent, if I don’t like to feel my emotions, now my child is feeling emotion, well that creates emotion in me, but I don’t wanna feel my emotions, so I need to shut my child down. It’s okay. It’s not really that big of a deal. It’s fine. You’ll get over it. You know, you’re worrying about nothing.
Minimize, minimize, minimize, which is teaching your child shut down and suppress their emotions as well. Where did they learn it from? Right. You know, if we’re not learning how to feel our emotions, we are learning how to suppress our emotions.
Gissele : Yeah. Yeah. And then that comes out in a different way, in the worst parts of my journey in learning to love myself and, step into that worthiness was I realized a pattern
 I had some unexpected things [00:15:00] happen in my life that were shocking to me. they had such a traumatic effect that I would actually, with my negative thinking, create negative experiences so that I could control them. does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Gissele : but I wasn’t aware that I was doing that,
 So that uncertainty was very frightening for me and it’s very frightening for very many people. I’m just curious as to your thoughts about that.
Sabrina: You know what I think uncertainty. Again, what feeds that is that core belief. So we can have all kind of experiences happening. If I don’t believe I can handle them there, there’s gonna be a lot of stress over all these situations.
But if my core belief is good enough, important and valued, whatever comes up, I think o okay. I got it. this isn’t gonna be easy. This is gonna be a lot of work, but I can handle it. I can figure it out. But when there’s that uncertainty and that self-doubt often, rather than again, working inward on what do I need to do to build my confidence?
We work look outward on how do [00:16:00] I control these things. And of course you can’t control anything but yourself. So you may have these things under control for a period of time, but eventually things are gonna collapse and then you can go, oh, see, no one cares reinforces and support’s not good enough. So as long as you’re using control as a way to try to.
Try to kind of handle situations. It, it’s not gonna be highly successful. It’s about within yourself, building that confidence within yourself. Mm-hmm.
Gissele : What has been your experience with surrender? I have found in my life and my experience that the more I surrender, the less resistance I have to things, the less I need to control.
the more things work out, sort of in a very smooth way. does surrender have a role
Sabrina: what we kind of refer to it as is responsibility. Do I have responsibility in this? If I do, then what’s my role? If I don’t, then it’s okay to me, for me to just remove [00:17:00] myself from it.
And so we wanna look at that. if I have something that I do need to be accountable, I will take accountability for my part. But I’m not gonna worry about taking accountability for everyone else’s part. And if I have someone in my life who refuses accountability over and over and over again, then I need to learn from that and realize my expectations for this person need to look very different.
Maybe I choose not to have them in my life. Maybe I do. But those boundaries look a bit different rather than constantly trying to get them to take responsibility. I realize that that’s not my place. I need to just figure out me. That’s it. Hmm.
Gissele : Are there any sort of behaviors that don’t outwardly seem as issues of not being good enough but are or might be?
Sabrina: Busyness is a big one. You know, it’s almost a bit of a bragging rights in our society to be busy, right? Oh, I’m so busy. I got this activity, I got this, I got my kids, I got this, I got this, I got [00:18:00] this. Busyness is not good. Mm-hmm. Busyness is a distraction. As long as I’m, again, running around focusing on all these things, you know, out in front of me, that’s all time I can use to avoid and distract from what’s really going on within me.
So we often see that as a pretty significant symptom. Same with control. Micromanaging. A lot of people may see that as a healthy coping strategy, but it really is not a healthy coping strategy. You know, when we look at coping strategies, one of the things we talk about is, you know, a coping strategy in itself is not really healthy or unhealthy.
It’s how I choose to use it, right? Mm-hmm. So if I go out and have a drink of wine with, you know, a couple girlfriends once every couple weeks or whatever, it’s probably a healthy coping strategy. But if I’m drinking because I’m feeling emotions and I need to numb everything, and I’m drinking way too much, and it’s damaging relationships.
Then it’s more of an [00:19:00] unhealthy coping strategy. So we really need to look at why are we using it, if we’re using it so that at the end we feel good, we feel content. It makes us feel proud of how we’re handling things. It’s allowing us to feel our emotions sort through things. Probably healthy coping strategy.
Unhealthy usually is used to the extreme, either way too extreme or we shut it off and don’t do it at all. Like exercise Now I’m not exercising at all. And so it’s used to the extreme. It’s used to escape and avoid dealing with things. It’s used to numb our emotions so we don’t have to feel our emotions.
It ultimately, after we do it, we feel guilt, bad regret, reinforcing and supporting. Not good enough, not important, not valued. So rather than looking specifically at the behavior, we need to look at why am I using it? That’s gonna give you more idea of which core belief you are reinforcing.
Gissele : So what do you think the role of compassion is in [00:20:00] helping somebody go through the difficult emotions? Because as a person who has done it, who sat with probably the most challenging emotions that she has faced, a lot of the fears, it can feel really overwhelming.
What helps people sort of titrate or stay in it long enough to get to the other side of it?
Sabrina: You know, I think like most things, it’s really about practice. The more you practice it, the more comfortable it becomes. You know, with a lot of my clients that are in their thirties, forties, fifties, you know, my oldest clients are in their seventies.
They’ve spent decades avoiding feeling emotion. And so how do you start to feel emotion where that doesn’t feel absolutely overwhelming? ’cause most of them are full up with emotion. So the thought of feeling emotion is just too much. So we always go back and start very, very small. You know, I have a emotions list on my website, but really if you Google Emotions list, you’ll, you’ll find a hundred of them.
I tell my clients, print them off, [00:21:00] put them all over your house. Then when you start feeling angry, overwhelmed, just kind of off like something’s bothering you, pick up the emotion list and just read through it. The emotions that you are feeling, you’ll recognize. So now you’re starting. Don’t even have to say it out loud, just read it.
So you allow yourself to feel the emotion just a little tiny bit. Doesn’t feel quite as overwhelming. Then after you’ve done that a few times, then you can say the words out loud. ’cause even saying sad out loud creates a bit of sadness. So now I’m feeling a bit more confident. I keep using that for a while, then I get to that place where I can just stop and think about what I’m feeling in the moment.
But it takes time and practice. You gotta build that up. So I think a big part of compassion is. Confidence. I have to believe in myself. I can handle being compassionate to myself and to others. Once we build that confidence, then that compassion almost just seems to more just kind [00:22:00] of naturally flow because we can let our own defenses down and really just be present and in the moment with ourselves or with others.
Gissele : so thank you for that. I really appreciated that. what are some of the things or signs that will help them know that they’re changing, for example, that they’re starting to feel more good enough? Because I think sometimes we are very good at saying, these are the signposts of things that aren’t working, but what are some signposts of things where people are like, yeah, you know what?
Things are changing. You’re changing.
Sabrina: You don’t feel as stressed at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. You’re sleeping a little bit better, you smile a bit more. Mm-hmm. You are open to other people’s opinions, thoughts. criticism, feedback you’re not as defensive. You’re able to kind of just listen to what someone else is saying.
You’re getting better at feeling your emotions and sorting through your emotions. You are [00:23:00] using more healthier coping strategies that at the end of it, you feel proud of yourself. Right. Whether it’s going for a walk or listening to music or doing some journaling, at the end of it, you feel like, wow, I, you know, I, I handled that really well.
You are more patient, you are more calm. you are more open to other people’s suggestions. All those kind of things are suggesting you believing more in yourself. You can handle more. That means that core belief is shifting. You’re willing to take risks, try new things, listening to podcasts, different things like that where you’re stepping outta your comfort zone, creating new opportunities and experiences.
Gissele : Yeah. Yeah. Somebody that I was talking to was saying that they’re gonna take two things that make them uncomfortable, like two risks a day. I thought that was pretty cool. Like a pretty cool idea to become more, much more comfortable with discomfort, right?
Sabrina: For sure. [00:24:00] Remember, anxiety is lack of confidence, not believing in yourself.
You can handle something, so every time you try something new. There should be more anxiety because it’s something you haven’t done before. Mm-hmm. Right. Even just building your confidence in taking risks and trying something new where now, oh, it’s scary, but I know I can handle it. ’cause I’ve stepped outta my comfort zone many times as well.
One of the things we say in this model of therapy is nothing really stays the same. Yeah. So if you are not challenging and stepping outta your comfort zone, it’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller.
Gissele : Yeah. Thank you for mentioning that. I’ve had many conversations with different people in my life and one of the things it’s like.
I don’t like to say pick your hard but it is sort of like that if you face your, difficult emotions now, later on, it gets easier. The more that you choose from fear, the more you constrict and constraint, the smaller and smaller and smaller your world becomes.
And it [00:25:00] feels much more difficult to do it. Later on do you find that your older clients tend to struggle a little bit more or is it just sort of buried?
Sabrina: Well, okay. That’s a good question. So a lot of it is buried, but once we start opening it up, then yeah. And one of the things that the older clients have to recognize and acknowledge.
Is the hurt they’ve caused to their adult children, their grandchildren, maybe even their great grandchildren, whereas someone who’s in their twenties and thirties, they haven’t had nearly enough time to hurt as many people. And so there’s not as much of that kind of responsibility piece with it, for sure.
 you know, hurt people, hurt people. So if I was hurting, the chances that I did things to hurt other people is really, really high. Part of the counseling that we do is we need to acknowledge it and sort through that. ’cause as long as I’m carrying a bunch of stuff where I’ve hurt other people, why would I believe I have the right to a happy content life?
 it’s not [00:26:00] balanced. So I need to deal with all those things that I’ve done to hurt people in order to really, truly heal. Hmm.
Gissele : Yeah. And that’s very powerful. Shame and guilt can feel really overwhelming, right? people that don’t know how to regulate their emotions will do almost anything to avoid the feeling of shame, right?
Because underneath there there’s a belief that you won’t be loved. And so what helps people work through the whole concept of shame?
Sabrina: You know, I think shame loves not good enough and not good enough loves shame. They just feed off of each other for sure. And so it often is this thing that we’ve done that we feel bad about doing, and rather than just acknowledging it and addressing it, and understanding why we made the choices that we did.
We just hold onto it. and as long as you’re carrying a lot of shame, you’re not gonna feel happy and content in your life. they just don’t balance out. Shame is significant. So one of the things you wanna do is, first, manage some of those other emotions. [00:27:00] Get better at feeling, you know vulnerability, loved, connected powerless, vulnerable, unheard and then start looking into the shame after you’ve had some experience feeling some of those other ones.
If you start off with shame it’s almost too overwhelming and we just end up shutting it off. Then you have to acknowledge and allow yourself to feel that, take responsibility for the actions that created that shame, and then you can start to kind of move on. You know, guilt’s another one. a lot of us were raised with parents who used guilt as a parenting coping strategy.
So it’s ingrained in our head that we just automatically feel guilty about everything because that’s how our parents tried to control our behaviors. So that’s a really ingrained thinking pattern more than an emotion. It is a thinking pattern. Mm-hmm. The good thing about that is we can go back and change it.
The definition we use of guilt is [00:28:00] not living up to someone’s expectations, usually our own. Hmm. So once I challenge those expectations and change the expectations, the guilt goes down. So, for example, if I was always taught, you never say no, you please everyone don’t ever wanna upset or make anyone else unhappy.
That’s my pattern of thinking, sacrifice to make everyone else happy. But now I’m thinking I wanna have a voice. I wanna start saying, no, I wanna start taking care of myself. Well, those collide. Yeah. I can’t say no and make everyone else happy. So I have to change and adjust my expectations. So my expectation now is I need to be respectful when I say no, but it is okay if I have a voice and it is inconvenience or awkward for the other person.
That’s for them to figure out. Now as I tell myself that I’m not gonna feel guilty because I’m expecting that this may be uncomfortable for them, and that’s okay. That [00:29:00] guilt dissipates guilt’s more of a thought than it really is an emotion.
Gissele : Mm-hmm. Yeah. You mentioned the difference between thoughts and emotions.
And, and this is just my perspective, I usually find that. All emotions begin with a thought. So you usually have a thought first, which you have interpreted, and then some somehow have a big emotion about or not. Right? And so is it accurate that The habits that are formed from just your thoughts are easier to manage than ones that are based on thoughts and emotions.
Sabrina: That’s how emotions are created. So what happens is we have a thought that creates a chemical reaction that we then feel physiologically in our body creating the emotion. Our thoughts create our emotions. So the good thing about that is if I’m feeling really anxious and I challenge and control my thoughts, the anxiety goes away.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina: Right? If I’m [00:30:00] feeling really angry and I can stop and go, what are my thoughts? And I can realize, oh yeah, those thoughts are gonna create anger, challenge, and change those thoughts, the anger goes away. So neutral thoughts gonna create neutral emotions. But if we’re having thoughts of people hurting us, of feeling taken advantage of feeling you know, of being unappreciated, that is going to create emotions that we then feel physiologically in our body.
Gissele : Mm-hmm. you mentioned that whole concept of not good enough. Where does self-love fit into the whole concept of good enough?
Sabrina: the more you feel good enough, important and valued, the more you feel loved and content, right?
Our kind of end goal is that contentment. You just feel peace within yourself. you love yourself. I’m always a bit cautious around the word love. Because it has been warped in many situations. Yeah. I’ve heard [00:31:00] clients tell me love means taking abuse. Mm-hmm. Love means sacrificing myself to not cause any, issues.
Love means keeping secrets. Yeah. Right. Then we have the other extreme where we say, I love you now almost too much. It’s almost like, hi. Like I’ll say, oh, you know I love you. Oh, and I love spaghetti. Well,
Gissele : yeah.
Sabrina: So what does that really mean? So I think we need to even be aware of what is my definition of love?
Is it a healthy definition or is it more of an unhealthy definition? And then what? What else does that look like? Contentment. Peace, calm thoughts. You know it, you’ve gotta define it. love is almost a bit of that symptom word. We need to go deeper. We’ve gone through generation, you know, my parents were never said, I love you.
Never said it at all. and didn’t have to, didn’t create any emotions. But now we still don’t wanna say feel emotions, so now we [00:32:00] say, I love you a thousand times. So it really still doesn’t create a lot of emotion. Mm-hmm. So I find that balance and really be careful of what that word means to us, for sure.
Gissele : Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you for that. And so using whatever different term you’re gonna use, as long as you’re getting at the same thing which is about thriving, I think is really important.
You mentioned that anxiety is lack of confidence. What’s depression?
Sabrina: they go together in a cycle, right? Mm-hmm. So anxiety is that fight, flight, freeze on guard, ready to attack. Well, you can only do that for so long and it’s exhausting.
So then we kind of slip into the depression where I just don’t have to feel anything. I can curl up in a bit of a ball. I don’t have to deal with anything, but then that kind of passes I feel a bit better. So I come out of that, but now I’m in that fight flight freeze again. So we often see depression and anxiety often working together in a cycle for sure.
Depression, you know, is [00:33:00] another way of reinforcing and supporting that not good enough if I feel not good enough. Not important, not valued. What’s the point? Why bother? So, you know, just like we talked about how that core belief can present in alcohol, drugs, gambling, anxiety is one. Depression is one as well.
Gissele : I also wanted to emphasize the fact that, you know, the work that you’re doing is focusing on people feeling good enough from within. Many people try to find it from outside, whether it be through overworking, like you mentioned, through acquiring all the things they think they should have or by acquiring love from outside.
What sort of the mindset shift that needs to happen for people to realize that? It’s something that they can give to themselves from within versus from without. Because if you look at this world, everything in this world that we teach is get it from the external.
Sabrina: if my core belief is not good enough, not important, not [00:34:00] valued, I don’t believe I have much to offer even to myself.
But if I get it in a car, a big house, if I get a new dirt bike, if I have the best, whatever it is mm-hmm. Then I’ll be good enough.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina: As long as you’re looking externally, you’re not going to find it. But if I don’t believe in myself, I don’t really believe that I have it within even myself.
So I think that’s one of the first stages, is really becoming more aware of where is my core belief at. How much do I really give myself that opportunity to feel good enough, important and valued. Once you become aware, even just becoming aware starts to develop that core belief good enough, important and valued.
’cause now you know what’s there and you’re willing to challenge it. Honestly, if I don’t think I can even handle doing that, I’m not going to. So once we even start to become aware of it, that core belief is shifting. Once that core belief shifts, then we can continue to build on it little tiny step at a time where we start to find more of our own worth and [00:35:00] value within ourselves.
As we do that, we just naturally start to kind of look more inward and don’t worry so much about the outside stuff. Hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Gissele : But the journey towards. Shifting from not feeling good enough to feeling good enough can sometimes feel very challenging, right? Because you are dealing with difficult emotions.
What are some of the things that keep people moving forward?
Sabrina: it can be absolutely terrifying, you know? Mm-hmm. I’ll say to my clients, going through and challenging and changing this core belief is going to be one of the hardest things you’ve ever done. The only thing maybe harder is living the way you’ve been living. Yeah. Right. But the only way to really keep is you gotta let all that stuff out.
Well, letting all that stuff out sucks. Mm-hmm. It is lot fun. It’s terrifying. It’s a lot of work. It’s exhausting, but going very, very [00:36:00] slow helps you build confidence so you feel more in yourself. You can handle it. Reminding yourself that to heal, I gotta let this out. The more you let it out, the better it is.
You are never going to feel emotion that you aren’t carrying. So if there’s emotion there, let it out. Mm-hmm. Every time you do that, it gets a little bit easier and you feel a bit better. Right? Mm-hmm. We have a good cry. We always feel a bit of a sense of relief the next day. Continuing to do that. They work hand in hand.
So as you practice, you’re learning more, you’re understanding more, but you’re also feeling better, feeling more content, feeling more good enough, important and valued, feeling more pride. So they feed off of each other and you can continue to move forward. But they’re definitely, I know for my clients, every single client, there are days where they think I don’t wanna do this.
Like, what’s the point? You said I was gonna get better? I feel worse than I did before. Because you’re in it, right? Part of moving and getting healthy [00:37:00] is you may have a bit of an idea of what you wanna work towards, but you haven’t figured out how to get there yet. That is frustrating, but you have to keep practicing and practicing and practicing hope.
You know, I think hope is okay for a period of time, but we need much more than hope. You know, if I’m going hiking in the Outback and I say to my guide. Do you know where we’re going? And he says, I hope so. I’m probably not going with them. Right. And so hope can can get us over that lip a little bit, but we need to have a plan.
We need to have practice behaviors so we know what we’re doing, not just hoping.
Gissele : Mm-hmm. And you know, as you were talking, I was thinking People who have done hard things, the people that overcame, you know, the Holocaust, they saw themselves beyond that experience. They might have died, but they needed to see themselves beyond that experience.
So there is an element of belief that you can do it. There is that element [00:38:00] of desire to say, I don’t know how, I don’t know when, when I’m gonna get through this, this hurdle. What do you think the role of affirmations are in helping people gain more confidence and feel more good enough?
Sabrina: You know what, again, it can be a surface level thing, right? I can tell myself a thousand times that I am good enough, but if I don’t believe it, it’s not going to do any good. So what we talk about with all those kind of. Tools is, it really is just a tool. It’s up to you how much you wanna apply it.
So I can have an affirmation that I say, I, you know, I stick on a sticky note on my bathroom and I see it every day. But we all know after about five days, we don’t even really notice it there anymore. It’s not, gonna be of benefit, but if I’m using that affirmation to remind myself, to reframe my thinking, to challenge myself, to see things differently.
Then they can have an impact. So it’s not so much about the tool, it’s about how [00:39:00] am I using it? Am I using it to make changes to believe in myself or am I using it to actually beat myself up?
Gissele : Yeah. Yeah. Are there any other tools that you think that are helpful in helping people start on their journey?
Sabrina: I think there’s two really important pieces. First one is breathing. So when we’re going into that fight, flight, freeze response, and we’ve got adrenaline being dumped into our body, we also have a chemical called cortisol being dumped into our brain. Cortisol stops us from thinking we can’t use logic and reason, understand consequences feel our emotions.
It has a massive impact in our brain. Breathing stops that fight, flight, freeze response from happening. So if I’m in danger, we often hold our breath shallow breathing. When I take nice deep breaths, my brain goes. Oh, we’re not in danger. And so it is a really effective tool in helping to stop and [00:40:00] break that fight, flight, freeze response from happening.
What I usually say to my clients is don’t wait until your anxiety is a 10 outta 10 to breathe. You definitely need to Breathe outta 10, outta 10, but start breathing regularly throughout the day. It just brings everything back down. So breathing is a really, really effective coping strategy for sure.
But the other one is make a plan. Remember, anxiety is a lack of confidence. Well, if I have a plan of how I’m gonna handle something, I’m going to feel way more confident in handling it. So a lot of times we have those worry thoughts, those what if scenarios, we just let them repeat over and over and over and over and over in our head.
We say, take that thought, write it down on a piece of paper and figure out what do I do if this happens? Once we have a plan, we realize, oh, I could handle it. That anxious thought goes away. If it’s still there a little bit, it’s gonna be much less. But then you [00:41:00] just remind myself, no, I just do A, B, and C, and I would handle it.
Even taking that to worst case scenario. Right. So, you know, let’s say I’m working with a student who is worried about failing a test.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina: So we can make a plan about what do you do to not fail the test. But that’s not the worry thought. The worry thought is what if I fail? So what if, if you fail your test, what do you do?
You talk to the teacher, you know, you see if you can rewrite, you study more for the next ones. You do really well on your presentations so that you are bringing your markup, okay, so I can handle failing this test. Worst case scenario, what if I fail the whole course? So what do you do? You retake it.
Maybe you drop out and you start working. Even the worst case scenario we could handle. So once we start making a plan, we can really help believe in ourselves more that we would handle it. [00:42:00] Might not be fun, might not be great. I probably won’t even be very graceful in doing it, but it will happen. We are way more resilient than we give ourselves credit for.
You. Think about all the experiences you’ve been through in your life. You’ve survived them ’cause you’re here now. Mm-hmm. We need to stop and look at that. I’ve handled all these things. Can I handle failing a test? Yep. Probably. Mm-hmm. Won’t be fun. Mm-hmm. It’s gonna create emotion that I don’t wanna feel, but yeah, I can handle it.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Sabrina: So I think those are two really important strategies. Breathing and make plans. Mm-hmm.
Gissele : Is there a level of detachment that should happen when you create a plan? during the time. When I was challenged the most creating that plan might’ve introduced a lot of resistance in me if it didn’t come through the way that I had planned.
And so I think that would’ve generated a little bit more fear in me. Is there a level of detachment or maybe different options that would’ve helped and [00:43:00] the other thing that would probably have arisen in me was well, I’m feeding that experience.
I’m saying that that’s gonna happen.
Sabrina: Yeah. Right. Well, well, and the problem is, you probably are already thinking that’s gonna happen a thousand times in your head. Yeah. So let’s just acknowledge it and say, okay, what do, if it happens? Mm-hmm. With a lot of our anxious thoughts, they never even really happen.
So we don’t even have to put the plan into place. But in knowing we have a plan builds confidence, which means those anxious thoughts are going to go down. You know, when we first start doing it, well, I think even after we’ve been doing it for a really long time. We can have a plan and the chances that it’s gonna go exactly the way our plan is, is laid out not very high.
That’s just not the way life works. Mm-hmm. So the first few ones can be, frustrating, but after you’ve made plan 10, 15, 20 times, you start realizing, okay, I can adapt that piece and I can challenge that piece. And I never even thought about that, but I figured out how to handle it because it’s not even really about the plan.
It’s about [00:44:00] building confidence, helping me realize I got this, I can handle it, I can figure it out. And so over time, that happens. But the, the plan is often more thought based than emotion based. It doesn’t have to be, but often it is. It’s more, you know, I’m thinking through more than I am really feeling through.
Gissele : Hmm. I was just thinking of a quote that I had heard about how people with good mental health are people that are the most flexible. Flexible and flowing who are willing to go with life. It’s not that life doesn’t give you adversity or things don’t happen. it’s the willingness to be flexible and the ability to bend.
And it really is the people that are the most in resistance and struggle the most, or the people that are want to control and are not. Able to adjust,
Sabrina: right? More. My core belief is good enough. The more confident I’m gonna be. So the more, no matter what comes up, I got it. I’ll figure it out. Core belief, not [00:45:00] good enough.
More insecurity. I don’t trust in myself that I can handle any of these things, so it’s gotta go exactly like plan. Mm-hmm. And so it’s, it’s building that we, you know, we don’t want that plan to be like a routine where it has to go A, B, C, D. It’s more about how do I handle these kind of scenarios and building that confidence rather than creating more rigid plans.
For sure.
Gissele : Yeah. And that flexible and flowing can make you feel like. Right. Because when you stop controlling things in your life, there’s an openness, there’s a sense of, oh, I don’t have to do all of that. I don’t have to control life anymore. I can just allow it. And that doesn’t mean that things aren’t gonna happen.
You know, there’s a difference between pain and suffering, right? Everybody experiences pain, whether we choose to. Suffer is optional. Like when I think about my experiences, many times I [00:46:00] experienced pain, but I was the one who was causing myself suffering by repeating those same thoughts and constricting and all of that stuff.
But it’s hard for us to acknowledge that we are doing that to ourselves. Right? Right.
Sabrina: It’s that responsibility piece. I think same with the word stress, right? People often talk about how everything is so stressful. You create your own stress. If you go into it thinking, I can’t handle this, yeah, you’re gonna be stressed out.
But if you go in feeling confident, knowing that no matter what comes, you’ll figure it out and you will handle it. It’s not as stressful. there are varying things for sure, something really significant happen. It may create more stress than other things, but if we’re really stressed all the time, you are creating your own stress by how you are thinking about how you’re gonna handle the event.
Not the event itself.
Gissele : Hmm. Yeah. Thank you. So I wanted to give you an opportunity to share where can people find you? Where can they work [00:47:00] with you? Tell us a little bit more about your book.
Sabrina: Sure. So my book is not good enough. Understanding Your Core Belief and Anxiety. It’s available on Amazon’s.
It is a handbook. So you’re reading about core belief and in general, but then you do an activity where you’re applying that information to your own personal experiences. So it’s a, a book about self-reflection, learning more, understanding more about your core belief, and then how is it, you know, showing up in your life.
And then what do you do? What are some things you can do to challenge yourself? To start to feel more and more good enough, important and valued. I am also on on most social media. I am Sabrina Trobak on YouTube and on LinkedIn. I am NGE. So not good enough. Understand. NGE_Trobak on Instagram and NGE_CoreBelief on TikTok.
And then I’m on Facebook as well in [00:48:00] Trobak holistic counseling. Mm-hmm. Wonderful I have a website, http://www.trobakholistic.org. On my website is a page to my book. It’s got a blog section, which is just short, two to four minute reads about everything. Also got a link, a page that links all of the podcast interviews that I’ve done as well.
Gissele : Hmm. Beautiful. So one final question. I ask this of all my guests. What is your definition of love?
Sabrina: I, I would say my definition of love is. Probably just one word. Acceptance. Mm-hmm. Acceptance of self and others. And, and sometimes that means giving love and sometimes that means moving on.
Gissele : Hmm. I like that. I like that. Even acceptance of situations. Right. If you have the confidence to believe that you can overcome anything, it’s just acceptance. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Sabrina, for being on the show and for sharing your wisdom with [00:49:00] us, and thank you to those who tuned into love and compassion with Gissele
Stay tuned for another episode.

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