What if your small church isn't broken? What if it's exactly the size it's meant to be?In this illuminating conversation, third-generation pastor Karl Vaters shares his 32-year journey leading the same congregation and his revolutionary discovery that transformed his ministry: small churches aren't failed big churches—they're a strategic approach to effective ministry.His message resonates deeply with the 90% of pastors leading congregations under 200 members: small isn't a problem to fix but a strategy to leverage. As Karl powerfully states, "Discipleship fixes everything" and "Integrity is the new competence"—challenging us to measure success not by attendance but by faithfulness and character.Whether you lead a church of 50 or 5,000, Karl's wisdom will transform how you view effective ministry. Subscribe now and share this episode with a leader who needs this freeing perspective!Send us a textWe want to help you find your next steps in ministry.Connect here with EXCEL. Ministry Partner: Christian Community Credit Union

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