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Listen "Susie Orbach - What is happening to our bodies?"
Episode Synopsis
In my discipline, we tend to look at body-based problems as being expressions of psychological distress.
About Susie Orbach
"I am a psychoanalyst, psychotherapist and writer, and the co-founder of the Women’s Therapy Centre in London and New York.
I look at how the issues of society are structured into the individual, and constitute how we become who we are, but holding on to the notion that we live in a society and that every relation that exists is imbued with the power relations, the unconscious desires, the longings, and the struggle for subjectivity that exists between people."
Key Points
• We tend to look at body-based problems as being expressions of psychological distress, but it’s worth exploring the whole question of how a body comes into being and what body distress might express in its own terms.
• Almost everything that occurs in the mother-baby interaction is expressed as a psychological relation. However, it’s also, and primarily, a body-to-body relation. Today, many mothers come to parenting with very troubled bodies, full of upset or anxiety.
• There are various societal forces that are impacting on the body. There is demand that we have a body that’s camera-ready the whole time, a body that can seduce, a body ready for display. There are enormous industries which are impacting on the body.
• If you look at any of the disembodied bodies in AI, they are all shown in plastic versions of women. That seems to me preparation for accepting lots and lots more AI. Look how attractive it is. I think the long-term notion is that we will be bodiless.
I’ve been interested in the question of how we get a body, partly because over the last 40 years, as a psychoanalyst, I’ve seen a huge increase in body-based problems. There are many theories contested and agreed upon about how we get a mind but, somehow, the whole question of the body has been left out of the story.
It’s useful to paraphrase both Simone de Beauvoir – “Women are made, not born” – and Winnicott, the British psychoanalyst and paediatrician, who said, “There is no such thing as a baby. Wherever you see a baby, you see a mother-baby unit.” I’ve been applying those two ideas to the body, arguing that wherever you see a body, you see a body that has been made, not simply born. Bodies are an outcome of the body-to-body relations around them.
Expressions of a distressed mind?
In my discipline, we tend to look at body-based problems as being expressions of psychological distress: a paralysed arm, speaking in tongues, or believing that you are pregnant – pseudocyesis. There is a psychological motivation behind these, but there’s also a sense of the body itself as being troubled, and it’s worth exploring the whole question of how a body comes into being and what body distress might express in its own terms.
If you take something very simple, like eczema, a skin disease, it would be discussed in general as the weeping of a mind. The mind hurts so much that feelings can’t be expressed: the person can’t cry, they can’t tolerate the irritation that they’re feeling inside of them. I think that’s perfectly valid, but I also want to look at the fact that perhaps it’s an expression of a body that’s never been accepted easily, partly because of the way it’s been introduced to itself, and therefore it’s an expression also of bodily distress, that it’s a body saying I need attention, I need comfort and soothing for myself.
About Susie Orbach
"I am a psychoanalyst, psychotherapist and writer, and the co-founder of the Women’s Therapy Centre in London and New York.
I look at how the issues of society are structured into the individual, and constitute how we become who we are, but holding on to the notion that we live in a society and that every relation that exists is imbued with the power relations, the unconscious desires, the longings, and the struggle for subjectivity that exists between people."
Key Points
• We tend to look at body-based problems as being expressions of psychological distress, but it’s worth exploring the whole question of how a body comes into being and what body distress might express in its own terms.
• Almost everything that occurs in the mother-baby interaction is expressed as a psychological relation. However, it’s also, and primarily, a body-to-body relation. Today, many mothers come to parenting with very troubled bodies, full of upset or anxiety.
• There are various societal forces that are impacting on the body. There is demand that we have a body that’s camera-ready the whole time, a body that can seduce, a body ready for display. There are enormous industries which are impacting on the body.
• If you look at any of the disembodied bodies in AI, they are all shown in plastic versions of women. That seems to me preparation for accepting lots and lots more AI. Look how attractive it is. I think the long-term notion is that we will be bodiless.
I’ve been interested in the question of how we get a body, partly because over the last 40 years, as a psychoanalyst, I’ve seen a huge increase in body-based problems. There are many theories contested and agreed upon about how we get a mind but, somehow, the whole question of the body has been left out of the story.
It’s useful to paraphrase both Simone de Beauvoir – “Women are made, not born” – and Winnicott, the British psychoanalyst and paediatrician, who said, “There is no such thing as a baby. Wherever you see a baby, you see a mother-baby unit.” I’ve been applying those two ideas to the body, arguing that wherever you see a body, you see a body that has been made, not simply born. Bodies are an outcome of the body-to-body relations around them.
Expressions of a distressed mind?
In my discipline, we tend to look at body-based problems as being expressions of psychological distress: a paralysed arm, speaking in tongues, or believing that you are pregnant – pseudocyesis. There is a psychological motivation behind these, but there’s also a sense of the body itself as being troubled, and it’s worth exploring the whole question of how a body comes into being and what body distress might express in its own terms.
If you take something very simple, like eczema, a skin disease, it would be discussed in general as the weeping of a mind. The mind hurts so much that feelings can’t be expressed: the person can’t cry, they can’t tolerate the irritation that they’re feeling inside of them. I think that’s perfectly valid, but I also want to look at the fact that perhaps it’s an expression of a body that’s never been accepted easily, partly because of the way it’s been introduced to itself, and therefore it’s an expression also of bodily distress, that it’s a body saying I need attention, I need comfort and soothing for myself.
In God we trust