After my last episode on behaviourism, cognitivism, and constructivism ("A Message for Zoë"), I heard back from Zoë herself, and also heard from Malin Tväråna, an education researcher in Sweden. I decided that it was worth recording an episode relating what I heard from them, and my thoughts about it. Enjoy the episode. ### REFERENCES Miłosz, Czesław (1953): The Captive Mind. Radford, Luis (2016): The Theory of Objectification and its Place among Sociocultural Research in Mathematics Education. Radford, Luis (2018): Teaching and learning (algebra or something else): Working together to make sense of similarities and differences between theories (and understanding oneself).

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