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Listen "eCommerce MasterPlan | 567: How MUD Jeans Built the World’s First Circular Denim Brand — and What eCommerce Can Learn from It"
Episode Synopsis
Bert van Son is the founder at MUD Jeans, the first and only circular jeans company in the world. Founded in 2012 they’ve been a BCorp since 2013. Selling via their Shopify store, their own store in Amsterdam, and over 250 stockists across Europe.
In this episode, Bert shares how MUD Jeans is redefining what it means to be a sustainable fashion brand — from leasing jeans to turning old denim into new. Get ready to learn how circular design, smart eCommerce strategy, and genuine purpose can work together to build a brand that lasts.
Hit PLAY to hear:
How Mud Jeans turns old denim into brand-new jeans — and makes it profitable
Why sustainability alone won’t sell (and what really drives customers to buy)
The smart circular model that keeps customers coming back
How mindset-based segmentation helps Mud Jeans target the right audience
The surprising tool helping them sell secondhand jeans online
Why ultra-fast fashion is hurting us all — and what eCommerce brands can do differently
Key timestamps to dive straight in:
[03:51] “Intern Turnover and Inspiration”
[08:22] Leisure Jeans: A Global Sensation
[13:23] Customer Sustainability Segments
[15:55] Fast Fashion’s Economic Impact
[17:21] Tech Hubris & Brexit Concerns
[18:44] Listen to Bert’s Top Tips!
Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/567
—
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WEBVTT
00:00.591 –> 00:09.414
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s the number one driver to buy pair jeans, the fit and the second thing is the washing and the color and the softness and the material, the price and the availability.
00:09.834 –> 00:16.477
[SPEAKER_02]: The list is long until 14 is something about sustainability, which is a set discovery, I think.
00:16.597 –> 00:23.019
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve been shouting about CO2 emission, less water use, it’s non-toxic dye and the whole enchilada.
00:23.319 –> 00:26.240
[SPEAKER_02]: But nobody cares, people want a good pair of jeans that fits well.
00:28.950 –> 00:31.331
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.
00:31.891 –> 00:35.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.
00:36.472 –> 00:44.255
[SPEAKER_00]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.
00:47.763 –> 00:48.863
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.
00:48.883 –> 00:50.044
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.
00:50.144 –> 00:53.926
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.
00:53.986 –> 01:02.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get started, a quick thank you to Leslie Romalac past guest of this show for suggesting this brilliant guest to us.
01:02.869 –> 01:04.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Leslie.
01:04.950 –> 01:08.612
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we get to hear from.
01:09.632 –> 01:33.112
[SPEAKER_01]: one of the most sustainable fashion brands in the world who have worked out how to do circularity with denim, yes jeans, and as a bit of a denim junkie myself, not only am I loving but take on sustainability, customer segmentation and how it fits into all parts of the business, I also love the fact we’re talking about jeans.
01:33.532 –> 01:34.393
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, we
01:34.853 –> 01:43.362
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a super inspiring episode with lots of good practical tips and some very cool recommendations in the top tip section at the end as well.
01:43.422 –> 01:46.405
[SPEAKER_01]: So, as always, listen to the end everybody.
01:52.323 –> 02:00.468
[SPEAKER_01]: And now to introduce our special guest, Bert van Sorn is the founder at Mud Jeans, the first and only circular jeans company in the world.
02:00.929 –> 02:12.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Founded in 2012, they’ve been a B-Corp since 2013, selling via their Shopify store, their own store in Amsterdam, and over 250 stockest across Europe, hello, but.
02:12.816 –> 02:14.817
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Chloe, good afternoon.
02:14.937 –> 02:17.059
[SPEAKER_01]: Lovely to have you here on the show.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How did you end up getting into the world
02:22.820 –> 02:27.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I actually first ended up in the world of clothing 14 years ago.
02:28.244 –> 02:36.129
[SPEAKER_02]: During that time, we shipped a goods from China and we made beautiful clothing to protect yourself and look good.
02:36.690 –> 02:50.279
[SPEAKER_02]: And I’ve seen the clothing industry in my life changing from something close that you were to protect yourself, but to look good, but to this fast fashion monster that we have today and that’s why I started this company 12 years ago.
02:51.274 –> 02:54.395
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, let’s tell us a bit about mud jeans.
02:54.455 –> 02:57.917
[SPEAKER_01]: You’re in Amsterdam, you’re selling globally, I believe.
02:57.937 –> 03:00.838
[SPEAKER_01]: And what does the team look like?
03:01.158 –> 03:03.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you keep everything in house, do you outsource things?
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, we do sue outsource things, for instance, logistics.
03:07.641 –> 03:16.265
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have a logistic partner that mainly does our B2C part, but also delivering the stores, which is one of the complications that we have with them.
03:16.585 –> 03:19.226
[SPEAKER_02]: Because most logistic partners are either very good at B2C
03:21.607 –> 03:27.231
[SPEAKER_02]: And then cannot do the shop part, or you have a logistic partner, it’s very good in the shop deliveries.
03:28.011 –> 03:32.735
[SPEAKER_02]: But it isn’t fast enough for the web shop deliveries, so it’s always struggle actually there.
03:33.295 –> 03:34.736
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s one of the things we outsource.
03:36.037 –> 03:46.043
[SPEAKER_02]: We are 12 people, and a lot of interns also very often, because Amsterdam is denim city, we have low fashion schools here,
03:48.925 –> 04:05.546
[SPEAKER_02]: And also because we do something different, we are lucky to get very intelligent, intelligent, intrinsically motivated young people wanting to use their efforts in our company, which is always a joy to see and coming, but also going unlocally.
04:06.347 –> 04:15.693
[SPEAKER_02]: most of the time actually this is the time of the year when we get we have to say goodbye to six or seven interns and six or seven new interns are coming this time for instance.
04:15.733 –> 04:22.137
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a girl from Philadelphia United States and I ask her why do you come to us?
04:23.458 –> 04:33.022
[SPEAKER_02]: and our answer was, well, you’re the only company in the world that’s doing this and also Holland’s apparently is a from-runner in circular industries or in circular fashion.
04:33.503 –> 04:38.125
[SPEAKER_02]: So it’s amazing always to see that, and it helps us keeping going also.
04:38.245 –> 04:44.367
[SPEAKER_02]: This young and to jazz and energy, especially for me as an old man that’s always good to see.
04:45.088 –> 04:49.009
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m guessing that there must be a great part in that
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[SPEAKER_01]: Not reeducating people, but correctly educating people at the very beginning of their careers with what’s possible in circularity so they can go out and spread the gospel as it were.
05:01.989 –> 05:03.289
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it’s the other way around.
05:03.629 –> 05:04.029
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
05:04.169 –> 05:06.390
[SPEAKER_02]: Correcting me, I learned from them.
05:06.810 –> 05:07.730
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re very motivated.
05:07.770 –> 05:09.230
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to know they study this.
05:10.011 –> 05:13.391
[SPEAKER_02]: The schools have changed and they come up with a lot of ideas.
05:20.573 –> 05:29.191
[SPEAKER_02]: new things and you know every day we try to do better and with with that energy we we sometimes have great ideas coming in.
05:30.011 –> 05:34.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, when I introduced you, I said you were the first lonely circular jeans company in the world.
05:34.873 –> 05:36.614
[SPEAKER_01]: What does circular mean to mud?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it about buyback schemes, leasing, rental, what does circular mean in your world?
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[SPEAKER_02]: All of that, but the main thought is that we want to make jeans out of all jeans.
05:48.659 –> 05:57.342
[SPEAKER_02]: That means we find ways commercially to get back our old jeans, for instance, by leasing, but also by giving people a tenure or discount
05:59.943 –> 06:05.706
[SPEAKER_02]: We then ship those to Spain where we work with a partner that does the refibring.
06:05.946 –> 06:06.846
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that an English word?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
06:07.486 –> 06:08.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s not works here.
06:09.587 –> 06:11.308
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s really tearing apart.
06:11.568 –> 06:17.371
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, getting rid of the metal parts, tearing apart the genes in several different steps.
06:17.411 –> 06:21.413
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s videos on our YouTube channel showing this.
06:22.353 –> 06:32.457
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to mix it still then with new organic coating and that’s mechanically recycled coating gives us the chance to use 40 percent all genes.
06:32.937 –> 06:40.100
[SPEAKER_02]: We call that post-consumer waste into our new genes and that’s sadly we are the only one really doing this.
06:41.020 –> 06:44.082
[SPEAKER_02]: are also being transparent about it because it’s difficult.
06:44.462 –> 06:46.543
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to do all the efforts to get back all genes.
06:46.563 –> 06:56.347
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to ship them to Spain and you work with someone who’s ready to use not only virgin material but also old genes and it’s always more difficult.
06:56.428 –> 07:05.212
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s actually the same princess as in the plastic industry where virgin material is a lot cheaper than recycled material
07:09.055 –> 07:11.376
[SPEAKER_02]: And therefore, that’s where the trouble starts.
07:11.516 –> 07:13.636
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are our materials are more expensive.
07:14.156 –> 07:19.318
[SPEAKER_02]: And we also try not to use toxic materials for dying, so we use non-toxic in-eagle, for instance.
07:20.198 –> 07:23.099
[SPEAKER_02]: We recycle the water, we use it at the plants.
07:24.079 –> 07:26.900
[SPEAKER_02]: And the list is long, you can read it in our sustainability report.
07:27.280 –> 07:31.421
[SPEAKER_02]: But back to the question, the circularity means that I make genes out of all genes.
07:32.161 –> 07:34.622
[SPEAKER_02]: And our dot on the horizon is that we want to make
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[SPEAKER_02]: One day, one hundred percent new genes out of one hundred percent whole genes.
07:40.640 –> 07:47.306
[SPEAKER_01]: which is a problem of many different angles from the fiber through to sourcing it in the first place.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Could you mention about how, for someone known, you know, it’s illogical that Virgin product is cheaper than recycled product, but it’s also, of course, the other big challenge I would assume is that if you’re using Virgin product, you can pick up the phone and go, I need X-meters of this denim.
08:07.444 –> 08:16.473
[SPEAKER_01]: by the end of the week, and it arrives, whereas when you’re using the recycled, you’ve got to find enough denim to then organize the manufacturing of the cloth.
08:16.814 –> 08:19.897
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s a lot more complicated in the supply chain too.
08:20.317 –> 08:22.519
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I have to, um, I really.
08:23.040 –> 08:27.124
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I’ll tell a story about the first years when we started this and we started with Lisa Chines.
08:28.262 –> 08:31.224
[SPEAKER_02]: which was picked up by the whole press all over the world.
08:31.244 –> 08:38.230
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just funny, the Guardian wrote about it’s the Wall Street Journal, because everything had been invented in the tenement in the street, but not lazy jeans.
08:39.031 –> 08:40.952
[SPEAKER_02]: So that meant that we got a lot of attention.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And people were asking me, okay, you’re taking back all jeans.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What are you really going to do with it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So we said, okay, let’s try to be smart, no budget, small company will show it by on the socials, on Insta and things.
08:53.122 –> 09:01.805
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ll drive with two cars full of old jeans, two Valencia, where our partners who is doing the recycling and we show them how the whole system works.
09:02.905 –> 09:17.571
[SPEAKER_02]: But at that time I didn’t have enough old jeans, so I called the clothing, old clothing gatherer and asked them if he had some jeans for me and he said, yeah, of course, you can go to this place and on Saturday morning where we put all the old stuff that we get.
09:18.711 –> 09:23.056
[SPEAKER_02]: And I knew we had a lot of waste in clothing at that time.
09:23.076 –> 09:29.922
[SPEAKER_02]: But I’ve never realized and I advise people to go and look at such places in UK or in Holland.
09:31.064 –> 09:36.949
[SPEAKER_02]: You walk into a hole that’s five football fields large, 20 meters high.
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[SPEAKER_02]: full of denim, not even old clothing but old denim.
09:41.352 –> 09:42.352
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s already separated.
09:42.372 –> 09:46.734
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s unimaginable the overproduction and the waste we have of clothing.
09:46.954 –> 09:49.315
[SPEAKER_02]: We do not realize that even me at that time.
09:49.916 –> 09:52.197
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot of genes to be recycled.
09:52.297 –> 09:57.159
[SPEAKER_02]: So instead of burning it or putting into the ground or whatever, we have to start recycling.
09:57.219 –> 10:02.441
[SPEAKER_02]: And out of all clothing got it, only 1% is recycled.
10:02.801 –> 10:03.782
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot to do there.
10:04.520 –> 10:06.001
[SPEAKER_01]: So there’s endless supply.
10:06.021 –> 10:08.724
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s endless supply, yes, yes, yes, yes.
10:09.945 –> 10:25.238
[SPEAKER_01]: So how have you, I mean, obviously, you know, you said, when you launched the, the leaseable jeans, the rental jeans system, that was huge news and you got lots of lots of great PR from it, do you find generally the mission that you’re on?
10:25.698 –> 10:32.184
[SPEAKER_01]: Translate easily into sales and marketing, you know, it’s the reason why they’re getting that.
10:32.764 –> 10:39.048
[SPEAKER_02]: No, getting a lot of PR’s nice, especially for a fresh brand, a new brand that wants to start.
10:39.128 –> 10:43.311
[SPEAKER_02]: It gives you a kickstart, but it doesn’t mean you sell a lot of jeans.
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[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people are interested, they’re really curious what you do.
10:48.074 –> 11:06.480
[SPEAKER_02]: But the next step to buy a pair of jeans that has recycled content in it is sort of a next level step because people I I got a lot of questions like does the material feel more rigid or does it fall apart quickly or does it smell bad or you can you can name it.
11:06.680 –> 11:13.202
[SPEAKER_02]: So between having a lot of PR as nice but selling is something else.
11:14.082 –> 11:20.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So to drive the sales, it’s all about what any other jeans company fashion company would do.
11:20.383 –> 11:25.624
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s the style, the design, targeting the right customer, all the standard stuff.
11:26.164 –> 11:31.205
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m glad you say this, because it took me 10 years to think this out.
11:31.965 –> 11:39.946
[SPEAKER_02]: And to find together new CEO who did research and guess what, what’s the number one driver to buy pair jeans?
11:39.986 –> 11:43.047
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the first thing you think of when you’re
11:44.336 –> 11:44.827
[SPEAKER_01]: Will it fit?
11:45.455 –> 11:45.795
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
11:45.815 –> 11:46.255
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s the fit.
11:46.595 –> 11:51.576
[SPEAKER_02]: The second thing is the washing and the color and the softness in the material, the price, the availability.
11:52.016 –> 11:53.096
[SPEAKER_02]: The list is long until 14.
11:53.236 –> 12:00.218
[SPEAKER_02]: Number 14 is something about sustainability, which is a sad discovery, I think.
12:00.358 –> 12:05.238
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve been shouting about CO2 emission, less CO2 emission, less water use.
12:05.318 –> 12:09.399
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s non-toxic dye, no children, the whole
12:14.720 –> 12:31.205
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you know that, then you have to change this message into, yeah, you get into the big world where you have the best photography, the best funnel on your website, the best you name it, everything, the best influencers, because you’re fighting with the big guys.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, but bearing all of that in mind, this is something I’ve been pondering, certainly for the whole of this year, if not for a bit longer, which is that if you are a sustainable consumer brand, fashion, gift, food, whatever it might be, and you are
12:49.945 –> 12:55.808
[SPEAKER_01]: you have become a B-Corp, you know, you’ve got all the good criteria, you’re really doing it, you’re not definitely not greenwashing.
12:56.428 –> 13:03.072
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the sustainability message, almost its place is post-purchase.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In educating the customer and making them feel warmer about the brands, they’ll come back again.
13:09.255 –> 13:12.797
[SPEAKER_01]: But like pre-purchase, it’s all about all the standard stuff.
13:13.037 –> 13:23.259
[SPEAKER_01]: that the consumer wants, then afterwards you kind of go, and by the way, this is really awesome because all these additional things is that how you treat the message.
13:23.962 –> 13:27.345
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes and no, we’ve divided the customers in four groups.
13:27.866 –> 13:32.150
[SPEAKER_02]: The dark green ones, so the dark green is a small part of the population.
13:32.230 –> 13:34.352
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s about five or six percent in Holland and Germany.
13:34.912 –> 13:35.753
[SPEAKER_02]: Germany is a little bit more.
13:36.294 –> 13:44.381
[SPEAKER_02]: And those are the ones that buy pair of mud jeans and they say, doesn’t really fit well, maybe, or something, but I’ll keep it anyhow because it’s a pair of mud jeans.
13:45.518 –> 13:47.200
[SPEAKER_02]: then you get the live green customers.
13:47.861 –> 13:56.493
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the customers that have been on holiday in Spain and so cars drifting down the road and thought to themselves, you know, something’s going wrong.
13:56.593 –> 14:00.498
[SPEAKER_02]: I might have to change my behavior a little bit and they start looking for
14:01.379 –> 14:17.504
[SPEAKER_02]: easy things to change and to be more sustainable or more more cultures, and then of course there’s the like gray customer, be doesn’t care less, and the dark gray customer is against everything, it’s climate change is a hoax.
14:18.124 –> 14:22.305
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are now the dark green customers are friends, they like
14:24.826 –> 14:26.707
[SPEAKER_02]: they were always buying my jeans and nothing else.
14:26.907 –> 14:32.248
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the line cream customers we are targeting now because it’s a much larger group, larger group.
14:32.889 –> 14:47.313
[SPEAKER_02]: They are like you say they we want to catch them by really making the best jeans and they’ll find out from hey these guys are really doing everything they take every box and I can be proud wearing those jeans and and talk about it to my friends.
14:48.073 –> 14:49.754
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s more or less what we try to do.
14:50.328 –> 14:56.236
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes so much sense, and I love the fact you’ve colour coded your customer segments because it makes so much.
14:56.316 –> 15:00.341
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you said the dark green ones, I know what the dark green ones are, I know who they are.
15:01.243 –> 15:07.791
[SPEAKER_01]: So if, if as ecommerce businesses, we’re not going to change consumer behavior through our marketing.
15:08.612 –> 15:17.036
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we go about fixing the vast horrendous problem that is the e-commerce industry, and it’s effect on the planet?
15:17.316 –> 15:22.699
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it’s not, I mean, fashion is pretty horrendous, but the whole industry has a part playing in fixing things.
15:22.899 –> 15:23.940
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we do that?
15:24.940 –> 15:39.051
[SPEAKER_02]: We first have to find out what’s really happening, and sadly, when I started, I wanted to count a fast session, you know, the H&M’s and the Zara’s, and say, guys, this can be done better, and you don’t need to make 52 collections each year.
15:39.071 –> 15:47.357
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I started, we made a winter collection and a summer collection, and I sort of could understand that, and then this smart guy came up with
15:52.961 –> 16:11.527
[SPEAKER_02]: the fast fashion companies, but we have a bigger problem that’s the super fast fashion, like Shine and Taimu Day, they just did a brilliant job by finding out with IT and AI to see what’s happening on socials, what people like and put it three days later in their store.
16:12.407 –> 16:33.122
[SPEAKER_02]: and making it a horrible way, and that’s really what’s happening today, and I don’t know how to counter that because they’re just too strong, and we don’t charge any income juts, we don’t charge TVA, even in Europe there’s a lot that when a package comes in, that you have to deliver it as a spouse, NL or whatever.
16:34.243 –> 16:52.512
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are killing our own industry at the moment and we’re also killing our own economy because this is money that just goes out of our economy and never comes back, you know, those people are not hiring people in Holland, they’re not paying tax and not paying social charges, they’re not paying nothing.
16:53.192 –> 16:58.235
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw an interview with a Greek old minister of finance, he explains his very well.
16:59.235 –> 17:05.281
[SPEAKER_02]: how this money extracted from our economies and is really very bad for us.
17:06.182 –> 17:08.485
[SPEAKER_02]: So it’s a sad answer, I’m afraid.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know.
17:09.606 –> 17:10.607
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know how to count it.
17:10.647 –> 17:13.810
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s because we can never beat them on being better IT.
17:13.830 –> 17:15.352
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to become an IT company.
17:15.412 –> 17:18.495
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if you want to be now today, good online.
17:19.256 –> 17:20.838
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s mine.
17:21.498 –> 17:36.572
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there’s plenty of tech involved, but I’m not sure any of us should be inspiring, aspiring rather to be Shane or Timo, because I think if we all try and do that, we’re just fast tracking our inevitable demise.
17:36.592 –> 17:40.455
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here in the UK, I mean, there are many reasons I detect Brexit.
17:40.855 –> 17:44.639
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the ones, emotionally that I detect, is that the EU are
17:46.200 –> 18:01.965
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say probably one of the top governments in the world leading the charge on legislation to change such things, which obviously because of the size of the economy that’s impacting on how businesses all around the world are having to behave.
18:02.555 –> 18:10.640
[SPEAKER_02]: True, there are some good laws coming in, like the EPR, that extended producer responsibility, which is in place now since, I think, the first of January.
18:11.280 –> 18:19.726
[SPEAKER_02]: The ESPR, the CSRD, those are all very well-thought legislations that are taking place now, which is good, I agree.
18:20.226 –> 18:23.608
[SPEAKER_02]: But I hope that they will be making the impact that we hope for.
18:26.625 –> 18:31.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.
18:31.507 –> 18:32.928
[SPEAKER_00]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.
18:44.367 –> 18:52.852
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level, but I am fascinated to hear your top tip, so are you ready for this?
18:53.672 –> 18:53.872
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:54.213 –> 18:54.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:55.413 –> 19:03.278
[SPEAKER_01]: The book top tip, if everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?
19:04.092 –> 19:06.393
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, your listeners are very fast readers.
19:06.613 –> 19:08.053
[SPEAKER_02]: So I’ve got two tips for them.
19:08.733 –> 19:10.734
[SPEAKER_02]: One is called abundance.
19:11.074 –> 19:12.074
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s an old book already.
19:12.334 –> 19:18.416
[SPEAKER_02]: From the amount is, he writes about that there’s enough for everything and for everyone.
19:19.076 –> 19:20.976
[SPEAKER_02]: We just have to get smarter using it.
19:21.056 –> 19:23.577
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for me, the circular economy is one of the things.
19:24.544 –> 19:28.969
[SPEAKER_02]: which your famous writer actually, the download the economy also writes about.
19:29.410 –> 19:30.291
[SPEAKER_02]: But that’s one of them.
19:30.311 –> 19:34.215
[SPEAKER_02]: And the second one is, good is the new cool from of Dell Aziz.
19:34.716 –> 19:37.118
[SPEAKER_02]: And he explains that companies that have no purpose.
19:38.259 –> 19:44.361
[SPEAKER_02]: And are only there to make as much as possible profit for the shareholders are not going to exist anymore.
19:44.741 –> 20:01.866
[SPEAKER_02]: He believes and he explains it well that a company has to have a purpose and a well-thought plan to not only make as much possible money but also as a purpose as something to do better for the world.
20:07.220 –> 20:15.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, I like the sound of both of those, are the traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either price above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?
20:15.943 –> 20:17.224
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for us it’s very simple.
20:17.484 –> 20:18.884
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve been working hard on that.
20:19.364 –> 20:20.285
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s our newsletter.
20:20.805 –> 20:26.747
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve got now around 60 or 70,000 subscribers and they react really very well on what we say.
20:27.950 –> 20:34.633
[SPEAKER_02]: You see immediately opening rates and hitting rates going through the roof when we send out a newsletter.
20:35.434 –> 20:37.855
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing is now that, of course, we have to be careful with them.
20:38.015 –> 20:39.555
[SPEAKER_02]: We don’t want them to unsubscribe.
20:39.896 –> 20:47.939
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a very thin line between how many newspapers are sent and what your momentum is on that.
20:48.239 –> 20:51.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you do too many, it’s going to work against you.
20:52.115 –> 21:02.022
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s always the the challenging thing with email is not get a greedy because greedy brings short term results but really decimates you long term.
21:02.182 –> 21:04.364
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it’s something sometimes to be with that.
21:04.804 –> 21:05.585
[SPEAKER_01]: Very tempting.
21:06.065 –> 21:16.353
[SPEAKER_01]: The tall top tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app or just a way of working, is the recall little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day.
21:16.873 –> 21:22.918
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s so many tools, but today we’ve just spoken to which I want to highlight because I really like their idea.
21:22.978 –> 21:29.284
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve been speaking to NINYES and NINYES is a company from Finland, also based in Berlin.
21:30.165 –> 21:37.371
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had this problem because we do lazy genes and after the release or after also normal client clients send back their old genes.
21:38.012 –> 21:40.574
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have actually two categories coming back.
21:40.854 –> 21:41.074
[SPEAKER_02]: One is
21:41.775 –> 21:43.996
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re totally gone, there’s nothing to do anymore.
21:44.036 –> 21:46.458
[SPEAKER_02]: And we throw them into the bin for recycling.
21:46.998 –> 21:49.179
[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, we try to follow the R letter.
21:49.279 –> 21:51.901
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know if you’re familiar with the R letter.
21:52.381 –> 21:52.601
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
21:52.641 –> 21:53.362
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s going to be good.
21:53.462 –> 21:54.663
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, R letter is for us.
21:54.743 –> 21:56.363
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s like where do you start?
21:56.424 –> 21:57.324
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s reduced.
21:57.864 –> 22:00.986
[SPEAKER_02]: So by less, rethink, think about what you buy.
22:01.326 –> 22:03.488
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything you buy is a vote for something.
22:04.248 –> 22:10.131
[SPEAKER_02]: refurbish, repair, re-something, and then the last one actually in the row is recycle.
22:10.471 –> 22:15.034
[SPEAKER_02]: So we want to be higher on our letter by selling second hand genes.
22:15.594 –> 22:17.275
[SPEAKER_02]: And we didn’t have a real good solution.
22:17.355 –> 22:20.717
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we can do it in our, we have one store in Amsterdam.
22:21.517 –> 22:29.582
[SPEAKER_02]: But these people have a very good solution, which is on the back end to complicate the system to get people back to our side, but where you can buy our second hand genes.
22:30.602 –> 22:32.863
[SPEAKER_02]: And we get promotion through them.
22:33.503 –> 22:35.203
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have a source of income.
22:35.223 –> 22:44.605
[SPEAKER_02]: And it leads people again to our website with the voucher to buy new pair of jeans with a heavily discounted code.
22:45.065 –> 22:45.485
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
22:45.845 –> 22:48.466
[SPEAKER_02]: So Nendias is for me a great company doing this.
22:49.106 –> 22:50.186
[SPEAKER_02]: And we’re going to start with them.
22:50.446 –> 22:51.166
[SPEAKER_02]: I say, it’s new.
22:51.546 –> 22:52.467
[SPEAKER_01]: How are we spelling that?
22:53.227 –> 22:53.747
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am.
22:53.767 –> 22:54.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:55.009 –> 22:55.890
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is?
22:56.631 –> 22:58.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, one for us all to go and have a look at.
22:58.814 –> 23:07.646
[SPEAKER_01]: Love to hear how you get on with that, but and then the carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?
23:08.650 –> 23:14.173
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, we try to use as less possible energy than we can, and our tricks for that also.
23:14.754 –> 23:17.736
[SPEAKER_02]: With this one part, the other part is we work together with just dig it.
23:17.756 –> 23:19.036
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know if you know them.
23:19.056 –> 23:19.697
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
23:20.437 –> 23:24.620
[SPEAKER_02]: And they do a bunch, they dig holes in Africa.
23:25.060 –> 23:28.863
[SPEAKER_02]: Their slogan is, if we can heat up the planet, we can also cool it down.
23:29.970 –> 23:37.573
[SPEAKER_02]: And by making the soil green again, and by getting leaves and trees again, it changes everything.
23:38.613 –> 23:45.876
[SPEAKER_02]: So for every old genes returned, we planted tree or dig a bunch together with just dig it.
23:46.416 –> 23:48.937
[SPEAKER_02]: You can visit our website to see how they work.
23:49.400 –> 23:49.920
[SPEAKER_01]: very cool.
23:50.041 –> 23:52.563
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven’t heard of them, so I will go and check them out after this.
23:52.603 –> 23:55.005
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just digger and then brilliant.
23:55.665 –> 23:58.648
[SPEAKER_01]: But it has been fascinating chatting with you.
23:58.768 –> 24:05.174
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we say goodbye, could you please let listeners know where they can find you and mud jeans if they want to go and check out your products?
24:05.774 –> 24:07.274
[SPEAKER_02]: This one store in London sells 169B.
24:07.395 –> 24:12.556
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a small store, but they’re really a great partner of ours.
24:13.476 –> 24:20.938
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, online you can order your jeans and I would like to give to you listeners the discount code to get them really into my jeans.
24:21.519 –> 24:22.959
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s walk the talk.
24:23.259 –> 24:25.800
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you can put that in the chat also for them.
24:26.478 –> 24:28.520
[SPEAKER_01]: We will add walk the talk there for them.
24:28.540 –> 24:31.422
[SPEAKER_01]: What does the walk the talk code get them?
24:31.862 –> 24:38.508
[SPEAKER_02]: 20% and if you go to Amsterdam, you would do me great favor if you go, visit our store, we’re very proud.
24:38.968 –> 24:42.771
[SPEAKER_02]: We have all sizes, all models, all colors there.
24:43.112 –> 24:44.853
[SPEAKER_02]: So the choice is enormous.
24:45.834 –> 24:51.379
[SPEAKER_02]: And I’m definitely sure that you will find your best teens ever in our store.
24:51.779 –> 24:52.880
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s in the center of Amsterdam.
24:53.688 –> 24:54.068
[SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant.
24:54.328 –> 24:58.070
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for that, but, and thank you so much for being on the podcast.
24:58.170 –> 24:59.751
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s been brilliant chatting with you.
25:00.292 –> 25:02.873
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, and thank you for having us.
25:09.026 –> 25:19.636
[SPEAKER_01]: how fascinating to chat about their, um, and love is almost brutal honesty with my question about, you know, does the sustainability help you at Cosmos, no Chloe?
25:19.696 –> 25:22.238
[SPEAKER_01]: Stop asking the question, it’s just a straight forward, no, love that.
25:22.338 –> 25:25.120
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really do love their, their colour coded.
25:25.901 –> 25:27.142
[SPEAKER_01]: customer segmentation.
25:27.222 –> 25:29.704
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s super simple segmentation isn’t it?
25:29.724 –> 25:35.729
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we all we’ll get in our in a not in a twist about trying to work out our personas.
25:35.809 –> 25:40.352
[SPEAKER_01]: But you hear the ones he’d ran us through, you know, dark green to dark gray.
25:40.432 –> 25:43.655
[SPEAKER_01]: And so well, obviously that makes complete sense for their business.
25:43.795 –> 25:52.402
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s super simple, super easy to identify and clearly makes their lives really straightforward and understanding who they’re talking to at any given moment.
25:53.122 –> 25:59.248
[SPEAKER_01]: And increasingly important as we move more and more into a world where the message is the identifier.
25:59.288 –> 26:03.892
[SPEAKER_01]: The message is the differentiator between audiences as well as responses.
26:03.912 –> 26:14.822
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, before I go from one about that, you can get your hands on the notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplan.com.
26:15.242 –> 26:25.572
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also use our direct-to-episode short-links, just put ECMP.info4sash the number of this episode into the URL bar, and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.
26:26.173 –> 26:30.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our main email mailing list, even.
26:31.038 –> 26:34.942
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don’t miss out on any of the other things we share to help you improve your business.
26:35.522 –> 26:48.192
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you like this episode, then have a listen to episode 392, where I’m chatting with another circular, focused, inspiring, founder, Kressy Wesleying from Elvis and Kressy.
26:48.993 –> 26:53.036
[SPEAKER_01]: An absolutely definite pair to this episode, so go and have a listen to that.
26:53.076 –> 27:03.264
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more from B-Corp’s, then head to ECMP.info forward slash B-Corp, that short link will take you straight to a full list of all our B-Corp episodes on the website.
27:03.724 –> 27:08.326
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce master plan podcast.
27:08.726 –> 27:19.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new one every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including working out how sustainability fits into your business.
27:19.970 –> 27:25.252
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.
27:25.612 –> 27:28.233
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.
27:31.465 –> 27:34.769
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.
27:35.230 –> 27:40.016
[SPEAKER_00]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash podcast.
In this episode, Bert shares how MUD Jeans is redefining what it means to be a sustainable fashion brand — from leasing jeans to turning old denim into new. Get ready to learn how circular design, smart eCommerce strategy, and genuine purpose can work together to build a brand that lasts.
Hit PLAY to hear:
How Mud Jeans turns old denim into brand-new jeans — and makes it profitable
Why sustainability alone won’t sell (and what really drives customers to buy)
The smart circular model that keeps customers coming back
How mindset-based segmentation helps Mud Jeans target the right audience
The surprising tool helping them sell secondhand jeans online
Why ultra-fast fashion is hurting us all — and what eCommerce brands can do differently
Key timestamps to dive straight in:
[03:51] “Intern Turnover and Inspiration”
[08:22] Leisure Jeans: A Global Sensation
[13:23] Customer Sustainability Segments
[15:55] Fast Fashion’s Economic Impact
[17:21] Tech Hubris & Brexit Concerns
[18:44] Listen to Bert’s Top Tips!
Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/567
—
Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits
Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info
Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.
Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
WEBVTT
00:00.591 –> 00:09.414
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s the number one driver to buy pair jeans, the fit and the second thing is the washing and the color and the softness and the material, the price and the availability.
00:09.834 –> 00:16.477
[SPEAKER_02]: The list is long until 14 is something about sustainability, which is a set discovery, I think.
00:16.597 –> 00:23.019
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve been shouting about CO2 emission, less water use, it’s non-toxic dye and the whole enchilada.
00:23.319 –> 00:26.240
[SPEAKER_02]: But nobody cares, people want a good pair of jeans that fits well.
00:28.950 –> 00:31.331
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.
00:31.891 –> 00:35.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.
00:36.472 –> 00:44.255
[SPEAKER_00]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.
00:47.763 –> 00:48.863
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.
00:48.883 –> 00:50.044
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.
00:50.144 –> 00:53.926
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.
00:53.986 –> 01:02.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get started, a quick thank you to Leslie Romalac past guest of this show for suggesting this brilliant guest to us.
01:02.869 –> 01:04.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Leslie.
01:04.950 –> 01:08.612
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we get to hear from.
01:09.632 –> 01:33.112
[SPEAKER_01]: one of the most sustainable fashion brands in the world who have worked out how to do circularity with denim, yes jeans, and as a bit of a denim junkie myself, not only am I loving but take on sustainability, customer segmentation and how it fits into all parts of the business, I also love the fact we’re talking about jeans.
01:33.532 –> 01:34.393
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, we
01:34.853 –> 01:43.362
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a super inspiring episode with lots of good practical tips and some very cool recommendations in the top tip section at the end as well.
01:43.422 –> 01:46.405
[SPEAKER_01]: So, as always, listen to the end everybody.
01:52.323 –> 02:00.468
[SPEAKER_01]: And now to introduce our special guest, Bert van Sorn is the founder at Mud Jeans, the first and only circular jeans company in the world.
02:00.929 –> 02:12.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Founded in 2012, they’ve been a B-Corp since 2013, selling via their Shopify store, their own store in Amsterdam, and over 250 stockest across Europe, hello, but.
02:12.816 –> 02:14.817
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Chloe, good afternoon.
02:14.937 –> 02:17.059
[SPEAKER_01]: Lovely to have you here on the show.
02:17.199 –> 02:19.821
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you end up getting into the world
02:22.820 –> 02:27.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I actually first ended up in the world of clothing 14 years ago.
02:28.244 –> 02:36.129
[SPEAKER_02]: During that time, we shipped a goods from China and we made beautiful clothing to protect yourself and look good.
02:36.690 –> 02:50.279
[SPEAKER_02]: And I’ve seen the clothing industry in my life changing from something close that you were to protect yourself, but to look good, but to this fast fashion monster that we have today and that’s why I started this company 12 years ago.
02:51.274 –> 02:54.395
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, let’s tell us a bit about mud jeans.
02:54.455 –> 02:57.917
[SPEAKER_01]: You’re in Amsterdam, you’re selling globally, I believe.
02:57.937 –> 03:00.838
[SPEAKER_01]: And what does the team look like?
03:01.158 –> 03:03.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you keep everything in house, do you outsource things?
03:03.980 –> 03:07.301
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we do sue outsource things, for instance, logistics.
03:07.641 –> 03:16.265
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have a logistic partner that mainly does our B2C part, but also delivering the stores, which is one of the complications that we have with them.
03:16.585 –> 03:19.226
[SPEAKER_02]: Because most logistic partners are either very good at B2C
03:21.607 –> 03:27.231
[SPEAKER_02]: And then cannot do the shop part, or you have a logistic partner, it’s very good in the shop deliveries.
03:28.011 –> 03:32.735
[SPEAKER_02]: But it isn’t fast enough for the web shop deliveries, so it’s always struggle actually there.
03:33.295 –> 03:34.736
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s one of the things we outsource.
03:36.037 –> 03:46.043
[SPEAKER_02]: We are 12 people, and a lot of interns also very often, because Amsterdam is denim city, we have low fashion schools here,
03:48.925 –> 04:05.546
[SPEAKER_02]: And also because we do something different, we are lucky to get very intelligent, intelligent, intrinsically motivated young people wanting to use their efforts in our company, which is always a joy to see and coming, but also going unlocally.
04:06.347 –> 04:15.693
[SPEAKER_02]: most of the time actually this is the time of the year when we get we have to say goodbye to six or seven interns and six or seven new interns are coming this time for instance.
04:15.733 –> 04:22.137
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a girl from Philadelphia United States and I ask her why do you come to us?
04:23.458 –> 04:33.022
[SPEAKER_02]: and our answer was, well, you’re the only company in the world that’s doing this and also Holland’s apparently is a from-runner in circular industries or in circular fashion.
04:33.503 –> 04:38.125
[SPEAKER_02]: So it’s amazing always to see that, and it helps us keeping going also.
04:38.245 –> 04:44.367
[SPEAKER_02]: This young and to jazz and energy, especially for me as an old man that’s always good to see.
04:45.088 –> 04:49.009
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m guessing that there must be a great part in that
04:50.986 –> 05:01.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Not reeducating people, but correctly educating people at the very beginning of their careers with what’s possible in circularity so they can go out and spread the gospel as it were.
05:01.989 –> 05:03.289
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it’s the other way around.
05:03.629 –> 05:04.029
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
05:04.169 –> 05:06.390
[SPEAKER_02]: Correcting me, I learned from them.
05:06.810 –> 05:07.730
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re very motivated.
05:07.770 –> 05:09.230
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to know they study this.
05:10.011 –> 05:13.391
[SPEAKER_02]: The schools have changed and they come up with a lot of ideas.
05:20.573 –> 05:29.191
[SPEAKER_02]: new things and you know every day we try to do better and with with that energy we we sometimes have great ideas coming in.
05:30.011 –> 05:34.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, when I introduced you, I said you were the first lonely circular jeans company in the world.
05:34.873 –> 05:36.614
[SPEAKER_01]: What does circular mean to mud?
05:36.754 –> 05:43.296
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it about buyback schemes, leasing, rental, what does circular mean in your world?
05:43.777 –> 05:48.038
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that, but the main thought is that we want to make jeans out of all jeans.
05:48.659 –> 05:57.342
[SPEAKER_02]: That means we find ways commercially to get back our old jeans, for instance, by leasing, but also by giving people a tenure or discount
05:59.943 –> 06:05.706
[SPEAKER_02]: We then ship those to Spain where we work with a partner that does the refibring.
06:05.946 –> 06:06.846
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that an English word?
06:06.906 –> 06:07.366
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
06:07.486 –> 06:08.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s not works here.
06:09.587 –> 06:11.308
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s really tearing apart.
06:11.568 –> 06:17.371
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, getting rid of the metal parts, tearing apart the genes in several different steps.
06:17.411 –> 06:21.413
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s videos on our YouTube channel showing this.
06:22.353 –> 06:32.457
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to mix it still then with new organic coating and that’s mechanically recycled coating gives us the chance to use 40 percent all genes.
06:32.937 –> 06:40.100
[SPEAKER_02]: We call that post-consumer waste into our new genes and that’s sadly we are the only one really doing this.
06:41.020 –> 06:44.082
[SPEAKER_02]: are also being transparent about it because it’s difficult.
06:44.462 –> 06:46.543
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to do all the efforts to get back all genes.
06:46.563 –> 06:56.347
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to ship them to Spain and you work with someone who’s ready to use not only virgin material but also old genes and it’s always more difficult.
06:56.428 –> 07:05.212
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s actually the same princess as in the plastic industry where virgin material is a lot cheaper than recycled material
07:09.055 –> 07:11.376
[SPEAKER_02]: And therefore, that’s where the trouble starts.
07:11.516 –> 07:13.636
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are our materials are more expensive.
07:14.156 –> 07:19.318
[SPEAKER_02]: And we also try not to use toxic materials for dying, so we use non-toxic in-eagle, for instance.
07:20.198 –> 07:23.099
[SPEAKER_02]: We recycle the water, we use it at the plants.
07:24.079 –> 07:26.900
[SPEAKER_02]: And the list is long, you can read it in our sustainability report.
07:27.280 –> 07:31.421
[SPEAKER_02]: But back to the question, the circularity means that I make genes out of all genes.
07:32.161 –> 07:34.622
[SPEAKER_02]: And our dot on the horizon is that we want to make
07:35.483 –> 07:39.836
[SPEAKER_02]: One day, one hundred percent new genes out of one hundred percent whole genes.
07:40.640 –> 07:47.306
[SPEAKER_01]: which is a problem of many different angles from the fiber through to sourcing it in the first place.
07:47.326 –> 08:06.723
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you mention about how, for someone known, you know, it’s illogical that Virgin product is cheaper than recycled product, but it’s also, of course, the other big challenge I would assume is that if you’re using Virgin product, you can pick up the phone and go, I need X-meters of this denim.
08:07.444 –> 08:16.473
[SPEAKER_01]: by the end of the week, and it arrives, whereas when you’re using the recycled, you’ve got to find enough denim to then organize the manufacturing of the cloth.
08:16.814 –> 08:19.897
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s a lot more complicated in the supply chain too.
08:20.317 –> 08:22.519
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I have to, um, I really.
08:23.040 –> 08:27.124
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I’ll tell a story about the first years when we started this and we started with Lisa Chines.
08:28.262 –> 08:31.224
[SPEAKER_02]: which was picked up by the whole press all over the world.
08:31.244 –> 08:38.230
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just funny, the Guardian wrote about it’s the Wall Street Journal, because everything had been invented in the tenement in the street, but not lazy jeans.
08:39.031 –> 08:40.952
[SPEAKER_02]: So that meant that we got a lot of attention.
08:40.992 –> 08:43.374
[SPEAKER_02]: And people were asking me, okay, you’re taking back all jeans.
08:43.855 –> 08:45.176
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you really going to do with it?
08:45.276 –> 08:52.462
[SPEAKER_02]: So we said, okay, let’s try to be smart, no budget, small company will show it by on the socials, on Insta and things.
08:53.122 –> 09:01.805
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ll drive with two cars full of old jeans, two Valencia, where our partners who is doing the recycling and we show them how the whole system works.
09:02.905 –> 09:17.571
[SPEAKER_02]: But at that time I didn’t have enough old jeans, so I called the clothing, old clothing gatherer and asked them if he had some jeans for me and he said, yeah, of course, you can go to this place and on Saturday morning where we put all the old stuff that we get.
09:18.711 –> 09:23.056
[SPEAKER_02]: And I knew we had a lot of waste in clothing at that time.
09:23.076 –> 09:29.922
[SPEAKER_02]: But I’ve never realized and I advise people to go and look at such places in UK or in Holland.
09:31.064 –> 09:36.949
[SPEAKER_02]: You walk into a hole that’s five football fields large, 20 meters high.
09:37.650 –> 09:40.912
[SPEAKER_02]: full of denim, not even old clothing but old denim.
09:41.352 –> 09:42.352
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s already separated.
09:42.372 –> 09:46.734
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s unimaginable the overproduction and the waste we have of clothing.
09:46.954 –> 09:49.315
[SPEAKER_02]: We do not realize that even me at that time.
09:49.916 –> 09:52.197
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot of genes to be recycled.
09:52.297 –> 09:57.159
[SPEAKER_02]: So instead of burning it or putting into the ground or whatever, we have to start recycling.
09:57.219 –> 10:02.441
[SPEAKER_02]: And out of all clothing got it, only 1% is recycled.
10:02.801 –> 10:03.782
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot to do there.
10:04.520 –> 10:06.001
[SPEAKER_01]: So there’s endless supply.
10:06.021 –> 10:08.724
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s endless supply, yes, yes, yes, yes.
10:09.945 –> 10:25.238
[SPEAKER_01]: So how have you, I mean, obviously, you know, you said, when you launched the, the leaseable jeans, the rental jeans system, that was huge news and you got lots of lots of great PR from it, do you find generally the mission that you’re on?
10:25.698 –> 10:32.184
[SPEAKER_01]: Translate easily into sales and marketing, you know, it’s the reason why they’re getting that.
10:32.764 –> 10:39.048
[SPEAKER_02]: No, getting a lot of PR’s nice, especially for a fresh brand, a new brand that wants to start.
10:39.128 –> 10:43.311
[SPEAKER_02]: It gives you a kickstart, but it doesn’t mean you sell a lot of jeans.
10:43.411 –> 10:47.414
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people are interested, they’re really curious what you do.
10:48.074 –> 11:06.480
[SPEAKER_02]: But the next step to buy a pair of jeans that has recycled content in it is sort of a next level step because people I I got a lot of questions like does the material feel more rigid or does it fall apart quickly or does it smell bad or you can you can name it.
11:06.680 –> 11:13.202
[SPEAKER_02]: So between having a lot of PR as nice but selling is something else.
11:14.082 –> 11:20.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So to drive the sales, it’s all about what any other jeans company fashion company would do.
11:20.383 –> 11:25.624
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s the style, the design, targeting the right customer, all the standard stuff.
11:26.164 –> 11:31.205
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m glad you say this, because it took me 10 years to think this out.
11:31.965 –> 11:39.946
[SPEAKER_02]: And to find together new CEO who did research and guess what, what’s the number one driver to buy pair jeans?
11:39.986 –> 11:43.047
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the first thing you think of when you’re
11:44.336 –> 11:44.827
[SPEAKER_01]: Will it fit?
11:45.455 –> 11:45.795
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
11:45.815 –> 11:46.255
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s the fit.
11:46.595 –> 11:51.576
[SPEAKER_02]: The second thing is the washing and the color and the softness in the material, the price, the availability.
11:52.016 –> 11:53.096
[SPEAKER_02]: The list is long until 14.
11:53.236 –> 12:00.218
[SPEAKER_02]: Number 14 is something about sustainability, which is a sad discovery, I think.
12:00.358 –> 12:05.238
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve been shouting about CO2 emission, less CO2 emission, less water use.
12:05.318 –> 12:09.399
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s non-toxic dye, no children, the whole
12:14.720 –> 12:31.205
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you know that, then you have to change this message into, yeah, you get into the big world where you have the best photography, the best funnel on your website, the best you name it, everything, the best influencers, because you’re fighting with the big guys.
12:32.260 –> 12:48.933
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but bearing all of that in mind, this is something I’ve been pondering, certainly for the whole of this year, if not for a bit longer, which is that if you are a sustainable consumer brand, fashion, gift, food, whatever it might be, and you are
12:49.945 –> 12:55.808
[SPEAKER_01]: you have become a B-Corp, you know, you’ve got all the good criteria, you’re really doing it, you’re not definitely not greenwashing.
12:56.428 –> 13:03.072
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the sustainability message, almost its place is post-purchase.
13:04.212 –> 13:08.855
[SPEAKER_01]: In educating the customer and making them feel warmer about the brands, they’ll come back again.
13:09.255 –> 13:12.797
[SPEAKER_01]: But like pre-purchase, it’s all about all the standard stuff.
13:13.037 –> 13:23.259
[SPEAKER_01]: that the consumer wants, then afterwards you kind of go, and by the way, this is really awesome because all these additional things is that how you treat the message.
13:23.962 –> 13:27.345
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes and no, we’ve divided the customers in four groups.
13:27.866 –> 13:32.150
[SPEAKER_02]: The dark green ones, so the dark green is a small part of the population.
13:32.230 –> 13:34.352
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s about five or six percent in Holland and Germany.
13:34.912 –> 13:35.753
[SPEAKER_02]: Germany is a little bit more.
13:36.294 –> 13:44.381
[SPEAKER_02]: And those are the ones that buy pair of mud jeans and they say, doesn’t really fit well, maybe, or something, but I’ll keep it anyhow because it’s a pair of mud jeans.
13:45.518 –> 13:47.200
[SPEAKER_02]: then you get the live green customers.
13:47.861 –> 13:56.493
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the customers that have been on holiday in Spain and so cars drifting down the road and thought to themselves, you know, something’s going wrong.
13:56.593 –> 14:00.498
[SPEAKER_02]: I might have to change my behavior a little bit and they start looking for
14:01.379 –> 14:17.504
[SPEAKER_02]: easy things to change and to be more sustainable or more more cultures, and then of course there’s the like gray customer, be doesn’t care less, and the dark gray customer is against everything, it’s climate change is a hoax.
14:18.124 –> 14:22.305
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are now the dark green customers are friends, they like
14:24.826 –> 14:26.707
[SPEAKER_02]: they were always buying my jeans and nothing else.
14:26.907 –> 14:32.248
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the line cream customers we are targeting now because it’s a much larger group, larger group.
14:32.889 –> 14:47.313
[SPEAKER_02]: They are like you say they we want to catch them by really making the best jeans and they’ll find out from hey these guys are really doing everything they take every box and I can be proud wearing those jeans and and talk about it to my friends.
14:48.073 –> 14:49.754
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s more or less what we try to do.
14:50.328 –> 14:56.236
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes so much sense, and I love the fact you’ve colour coded your customer segments because it makes so much.
14:56.316 –> 15:00.341
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you said the dark green ones, I know what the dark green ones are, I know who they are.
15:01.243 –> 15:07.791
[SPEAKER_01]: So if, if as ecommerce businesses, we’re not going to change consumer behavior through our marketing.
15:08.612 –> 15:17.036
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we go about fixing the vast horrendous problem that is the e-commerce industry, and it’s effect on the planet?
15:17.316 –> 15:22.699
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it’s not, I mean, fashion is pretty horrendous, but the whole industry has a part playing in fixing things.
15:22.899 –> 15:23.940
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we do that?
15:24.940 –> 15:39.051
[SPEAKER_02]: We first have to find out what’s really happening, and sadly, when I started, I wanted to count a fast session, you know, the H&M’s and the Zara’s, and say, guys, this can be done better, and you don’t need to make 52 collections each year.
15:39.071 –> 15:47.357
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I started, we made a winter collection and a summer collection, and I sort of could understand that, and then this smart guy came up with
15:52.961 –> 16:11.527
[SPEAKER_02]: the fast fashion companies, but we have a bigger problem that’s the super fast fashion, like Shine and Taimu Day, they just did a brilliant job by finding out with IT and AI to see what’s happening on socials, what people like and put it three days later in their store.
16:12.407 –> 16:33.122
[SPEAKER_02]: and making it a horrible way, and that’s really what’s happening today, and I don’t know how to counter that because they’re just too strong, and we don’t charge any income juts, we don’t charge TVA, even in Europe there’s a lot that when a package comes in, that you have to deliver it as a spouse, NL or whatever.
16:34.243 –> 16:52.512
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are killing our own industry at the moment and we’re also killing our own economy because this is money that just goes out of our economy and never comes back, you know, those people are not hiring people in Holland, they’re not paying tax and not paying social charges, they’re not paying nothing.
16:53.192 –> 16:58.235
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw an interview with a Greek old minister of finance, he explains his very well.
16:59.235 –> 17:05.281
[SPEAKER_02]: how this money extracted from our economies and is really very bad for us.
17:06.182 –> 17:08.485
[SPEAKER_02]: So it’s a sad answer, I’m afraid.
17:08.965 –> 17:09.446
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know.
17:09.606 –> 17:10.607
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know how to count it.
17:10.647 –> 17:13.810
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s because we can never beat them on being better IT.
17:13.830 –> 17:15.352
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to become an IT company.
17:15.412 –> 17:18.495
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if you want to be now today, good online.
17:19.256 –> 17:20.838
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s mine.
17:21.498 –> 17:36.572
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there’s plenty of tech involved, but I’m not sure any of us should be inspiring, aspiring rather to be Shane or Timo, because I think if we all try and do that, we’re just fast tracking our inevitable demise.
17:36.592 –> 17:40.455
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here in the UK, I mean, there are many reasons I detect Brexit.
17:40.855 –> 17:44.639
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the ones, emotionally that I detect, is that the EU are
17:46.200 –> 18:01.965
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say probably one of the top governments in the world leading the charge on legislation to change such things, which obviously because of the size of the economy that’s impacting on how businesses all around the world are having to behave.
18:02.555 –> 18:10.640
[SPEAKER_02]: True, there are some good laws coming in, like the EPR, that extended producer responsibility, which is in place now since, I think, the first of January.
18:11.280 –> 18:19.726
[SPEAKER_02]: The ESPR, the CSRD, those are all very well-thought legislations that are taking place now, which is good, I agree.
18:20.226 –> 18:23.608
[SPEAKER_02]: But I hope that they will be making the impact that we hope for.
18:26.625 –> 18:31.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.
18:31.507 –> 18:32.928
[SPEAKER_00]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.
18:44.367 –> 18:52.852
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level, but I am fascinated to hear your top tip, so are you ready for this?
18:53.672 –> 18:53.872
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:54.213 –> 18:54.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:55.413 –> 19:03.278
[SPEAKER_01]: The book top tip, if everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?
19:04.092 –> 19:06.393
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, your listeners are very fast readers.
19:06.613 –> 19:08.053
[SPEAKER_02]: So I’ve got two tips for them.
19:08.733 –> 19:10.734
[SPEAKER_02]: One is called abundance.
19:11.074 –> 19:12.074
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s an old book already.
19:12.334 –> 19:18.416
[SPEAKER_02]: From the amount is, he writes about that there’s enough for everything and for everyone.
19:19.076 –> 19:20.976
[SPEAKER_02]: We just have to get smarter using it.
19:21.056 –> 19:23.577
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for me, the circular economy is one of the things.
19:24.544 –> 19:28.969
[SPEAKER_02]: which your famous writer actually, the download the economy also writes about.
19:29.410 –> 19:30.291
[SPEAKER_02]: But that’s one of them.
19:30.311 –> 19:34.215
[SPEAKER_02]: And the second one is, good is the new cool from of Dell Aziz.
19:34.716 –> 19:37.118
[SPEAKER_02]: And he explains that companies that have no purpose.
19:38.259 –> 19:44.361
[SPEAKER_02]: And are only there to make as much as possible profit for the shareholders are not going to exist anymore.
19:44.741 –> 20:01.866
[SPEAKER_02]: He believes and he explains it well that a company has to have a purpose and a well-thought plan to not only make as much possible money but also as a purpose as something to do better for the world.
20:07.220 –> 20:15.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, I like the sound of both of those, are the traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either price above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?
20:15.943 –> 20:17.224
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for us it’s very simple.
20:17.484 –> 20:18.884
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve been working hard on that.
20:19.364 –> 20:20.285
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s our newsletter.
20:20.805 –> 20:26.747
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve got now around 60 or 70,000 subscribers and they react really very well on what we say.
20:27.950 –> 20:34.633
[SPEAKER_02]: You see immediately opening rates and hitting rates going through the roof when we send out a newsletter.
20:35.434 –> 20:37.855
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing is now that, of course, we have to be careful with them.
20:38.015 –> 20:39.555
[SPEAKER_02]: We don’t want them to unsubscribe.
20:39.896 –> 20:47.939
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a very thin line between how many newspapers are sent and what your momentum is on that.
20:48.239 –> 20:51.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you do too many, it’s going to work against you.
20:52.115 –> 21:02.022
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s always the the challenging thing with email is not get a greedy because greedy brings short term results but really decimates you long term.
21:02.182 –> 21:04.364
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it’s something sometimes to be with that.
21:04.804 –> 21:05.585
[SPEAKER_01]: Very tempting.
21:06.065 –> 21:16.353
[SPEAKER_01]: The tall top tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app or just a way of working, is the recall little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day.
21:16.873 –> 21:22.918
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s so many tools, but today we’ve just spoken to which I want to highlight because I really like their idea.
21:22.978 –> 21:29.284
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve been speaking to NINYES and NINYES is a company from Finland, also based in Berlin.
21:30.165 –> 21:37.371
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had this problem because we do lazy genes and after the release or after also normal client clients send back their old genes.
21:38.012 –> 21:40.574
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have actually two categories coming back.
21:40.854 –> 21:41.074
[SPEAKER_02]: One is
21:41.775 –> 21:43.996
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re totally gone, there’s nothing to do anymore.
21:44.036 –> 21:46.458
[SPEAKER_02]: And we throw them into the bin for recycling.
21:46.998 –> 21:49.179
[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, we try to follow the R letter.
21:49.279 –> 21:51.901
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know if you’re familiar with the R letter.
21:52.381 –> 21:52.601
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
21:52.641 –> 21:53.362
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s going to be good.
21:53.462 –> 21:54.663
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, R letter is for us.
21:54.743 –> 21:56.363
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s like where do you start?
21:56.424 –> 21:57.324
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s reduced.
21:57.864 –> 22:00.986
[SPEAKER_02]: So by less, rethink, think about what you buy.
22:01.326 –> 22:03.488
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything you buy is a vote for something.
22:04.248 –> 22:10.131
[SPEAKER_02]: refurbish, repair, re-something, and then the last one actually in the row is recycle.
22:10.471 –> 22:15.034
[SPEAKER_02]: So we want to be higher on our letter by selling second hand genes.
22:15.594 –> 22:17.275
[SPEAKER_02]: And we didn’t have a real good solution.
22:17.355 –> 22:20.717
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we can do it in our, we have one store in Amsterdam.
22:21.517 –> 22:29.582
[SPEAKER_02]: But these people have a very good solution, which is on the back end to complicate the system to get people back to our side, but where you can buy our second hand genes.
22:30.602 –> 22:32.863
[SPEAKER_02]: And we get promotion through them.
22:33.503 –> 22:35.203
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have a source of income.
22:35.223 –> 22:44.605
[SPEAKER_02]: And it leads people again to our website with the voucher to buy new pair of jeans with a heavily discounted code.
22:45.065 –> 22:45.485
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
22:45.845 –> 22:48.466
[SPEAKER_02]: So Nendias is for me a great company doing this.
22:49.106 –> 22:50.186
[SPEAKER_02]: And we’re going to start with them.
22:50.446 –> 22:51.166
[SPEAKER_02]: I say, it’s new.
22:51.546 –> 22:52.467
[SPEAKER_01]: How are we spelling that?
22:53.227 –> 22:53.747
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am.
22:53.767 –> 22:54.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:55.009 –> 22:55.890
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is?
22:56.631 –> 22:58.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, one for us all to go and have a look at.
22:58.814 –> 23:07.646
[SPEAKER_01]: Love to hear how you get on with that, but and then the carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?
23:08.650 –> 23:14.173
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, we try to use as less possible energy than we can, and our tricks for that also.
23:14.754 –> 23:17.736
[SPEAKER_02]: With this one part, the other part is we work together with just dig it.
23:17.756 –> 23:19.036
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know if you know them.
23:19.056 –> 23:19.697
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
23:20.437 –> 23:24.620
[SPEAKER_02]: And they do a bunch, they dig holes in Africa.
23:25.060 –> 23:28.863
[SPEAKER_02]: Their slogan is, if we can heat up the planet, we can also cool it down.
23:29.970 –> 23:37.573
[SPEAKER_02]: And by making the soil green again, and by getting leaves and trees again, it changes everything.
23:38.613 –> 23:45.876
[SPEAKER_02]: So for every old genes returned, we planted tree or dig a bunch together with just dig it.
23:46.416 –> 23:48.937
[SPEAKER_02]: You can visit our website to see how they work.
23:49.400 –> 23:49.920
[SPEAKER_01]: very cool.
23:50.041 –> 23:52.563
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven’t heard of them, so I will go and check them out after this.
23:52.603 –> 23:55.005
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just digger and then brilliant.
23:55.665 –> 23:58.648
[SPEAKER_01]: But it has been fascinating chatting with you.
23:58.768 –> 24:05.174
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we say goodbye, could you please let listeners know where they can find you and mud jeans if they want to go and check out your products?
24:05.774 –> 24:07.274
[SPEAKER_02]: This one store in London sells 169B.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a small store, but they’re really a great partner of ours.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, online you can order your jeans and I would like to give to you listeners the discount code to get them really into my jeans.
24:21.519 –> 24:22.959
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s walk the talk.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you can put that in the chat also for them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We will add walk the talk there for them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What does the walk the talk code get them?
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[SPEAKER_02]: 20% and if you go to Amsterdam, you would do me great favor if you go, visit our store, we’re very proud.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We have all sizes, all models, all colors there.
24:43.112 –> 24:44.853
[SPEAKER_02]: So the choice is enormous.
24:45.834 –> 24:51.379
[SPEAKER_02]: And I’m definitely sure that you will find your best teens ever in our store.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s in the center of Amsterdam.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for that, but, and thank you so much for being on the podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s been brilliant chatting with you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, and thank you for having us.
25:09.026 –> 25:19.636
[SPEAKER_01]: how fascinating to chat about their, um, and love is almost brutal honesty with my question about, you know, does the sustainability help you at Cosmos, no Chloe?
25:19.696 –> 25:22.238
[SPEAKER_01]: Stop asking the question, it’s just a straight forward, no, love that.
25:22.338 –> 25:25.120
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really do love their, their colour coded.
25:25.901 –> 25:27.142
[SPEAKER_01]: customer segmentation.
25:27.222 –> 25:29.704
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s super simple segmentation isn’t it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because we all we’ll get in our in a not in a twist about trying to work out our personas.
25:35.809 –> 25:40.352
[SPEAKER_01]: But you hear the ones he’d ran us through, you know, dark green to dark gray.
25:40.432 –> 25:43.655
[SPEAKER_01]: And so well, obviously that makes complete sense for their business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s super simple, super easy to identify and clearly makes their lives really straightforward and understanding who they’re talking to at any given moment.
25:53.122 –> 25:59.248
[SPEAKER_01]: And increasingly important as we move more and more into a world where the message is the identifier.
25:59.288 –> 26:03.892
[SPEAKER_01]: The message is the differentiator between audiences as well as responses.
26:03.912 –> 26:14.822
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, before I go from one about that, you can get your hands on the notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplan.com.
26:15.242 –> 26:25.572
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also use our direct-to-episode short-links, just put ECMP.info4sash the number of this episode into the URL bar, and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.
26:26.173 –> 26:30.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our main email mailing list, even.
26:31.038 –> 26:34.942
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don’t miss out on any of the other things we share to help you improve your business.
26:35.522 –> 26:48.192
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you like this episode, then have a listen to episode 392, where I’m chatting with another circular, focused, inspiring, founder, Kressy Wesleying from Elvis and Kressy.
26:48.993 –> 26:53.036
[SPEAKER_01]: An absolutely definite pair to this episode, so go and have a listen to that.
26:53.076 –> 27:03.264
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more from B-Corp’s, then head to ECMP.info forward slash B-Corp, that short link will take you straight to a full list of all our B-Corp episodes on the website.
27:03.724 –> 27:08.326
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new one every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including working out how sustainability fits into your business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.
27:35.230 –> 27:40.016
[SPEAKER_00]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash podcast.
In God we trust