For the summer season, All Else Equal will be alternating between new episodes and reruns. On this week’s episode, we’re revisiting our conversation with Mohamed El-Erian on the intricacies of national debt and the best ways to measure it. Mohamed, Jonathan, and Jules explore the broader macroeconomic and geopolitical factors at play. They discuss the importance of demographic shifts as well as recent technological advancements (AI) for economic growth and our fiscal future.El-Erian is the former chair of President Obama's Global Development Council and former CEO of PIMCO. He is a Senior Fellow at the Lauder Institute. You can read Jonathan and Jules’ paper on national debt, “Why Care About Debt-to-GDP?” published May 27, 2025, here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5271557Find All Else Equal on the web: https://lauder.wharton.upenn.edu/in-the-news/all-else-equal/All Else Equal: Making Better Decisions Podcast is a production of the UPenn Wharton Lauder Institute through University FM. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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