Whatever happened to cyber-wars? Wasn’t the future of fighting supposed to be keyboard warriors and hacks of government systems? Yet, in Europe’s first major war since 1945, we’re back to trenches and tanks, missiles and mines. So was all the talk of online offensives overblown? Is it still hardware and flying metal that rules the battlefield? Ciaran Martin was the first CEO of the UK’s National Cyber Security Centre, now professor at Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of government - he guides Phil and Roger through what computers can and can’t yet do in modern warfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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