David Grossman is one of America's most prolific and controversial police trainers. His courses on 'kill-ology' put violence and the act of killing at the heart of law enforcement. In the aftermath of Black Lives Matter, Grossman's methods have come under question. Host:David AaronovitchGuest:Laura PullmanClips:ABC, CBS, Warner Bros., Cannon Air Force BaseThis podcast was brought to you thanks to subscribers of The Times and The Sunday Times. To enjoy unlimited digital access to all our journalism subscribe here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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