Listen "# 95 Summary of Value Investing: From Graham to Buffett by Bruce Greenwald and Judd Kahn"
Episode Synopsis
In this episode, we are discussing Value Investing by Bruce and Judd. It centers on the evolution of valuation methods, contrasting traditional Graham and Dodd approaches with discounted cash flow (DCF) analysis. The core argument emphasizes the limitations of DCF, particularly its reliance on unreliable long-term projections, and advocates for a three-pronged valuation method incorporating asset value, earnings power value, and a nuanced assessment of growth. The authors highlight the crucial role of sustainable competitive advantages ("moats") and industry dynamics in determining a company's intrinsic value and the importance of specialized knowledge for accurate valuation, especially concerning intangible assets. Ultimately, the text aims to refine the value investing framework for assessing companies, particularly franchise businesses, where growth significantly contributes to value but also introduces complexities in valuation.
1. Core Principles of Value Investing:
Mr. Market's Capriciousness: Financial market prices are volatile and subject to unpredictable mood swings. "Mr Market ... shows up every day to buy or sell any financial asset he is a strange fellow subject to all sorts of unpredictable mood swings that affect the price at which he is willing to do business."
Intrinsic Value vs. Market Price: Assets have an underlying economic value (intrinsic value) that is often different from their market price. “the intrinsic value of the security is one thing the current price at which it is trading is something else though value and price May on any given day be identical they often diverge.”
Margin of Safety: Value investors buy securities when their market price is significantly below their intrinsic value, creating a "margin of safety." This gap protects investors from errors in valuation or unexpected market downturns. "Graham referred to this gap between value and price as the margin of safety ideally the Gap should amount to about one half and not be less than one-third of the fundamental value he wanted to buy a dollar for 50 cents."
Simple Process: The core strategy is to estimate fundamental value, compare it to market price, and buy when price is below value by a sufficient margin of safety. “a value investor estimates the fundamental value of a Financial Security and Compares that value to the current price at which Mr Market is offering it if price is lower than value by a sufficient margin of safety the value investor buys the security”
Variations within Value Investing: While the master recipe is simple, value investors differ in how they approach security selection, valuation, margin of safety calculation, portfolio construction and diversification and selling timing. "were there legitimate descendants differ from one another where each may add his or her unique flavor is in the precise way they handle some of the steps involved in the process selecting Securities for valuation estimating their fundamental values calculating the appropriate margin of safety required for each security deciding how much of each security to buy which encompasses the construction of a portfolio and includes a choice about the amount of diversification the investor desires deciding when to sell securities"
2. Distinguishing Value Investors from Others:
Technical Analysts (Technicians): Focus on price movements and trading data, ignoring fundamental economic value. “technicians avoid fundamental analysis of any kind they pay no attention to a company's line of business its balance sheet or income statement the nature of its product markets or anything else that might concern a fundamental investor of any stripe they care nothing for economic value”
Macro Fundamentalists: Focus on broad economic factors (inflation, interest rates, etc.) and forecast broad trends, often employing a "top-down" approach and not calculating specific intrinsic value. "macro fundamentalists are concerned with broad economic factors that affect the universe of Securities as a whole or at least in large groups inflation rates interest rates exchange rates unemployment rates and the rate of economic growth at the national or even International level"
Micro Fundamentalists (Non-Value): These investors also study economic fundamentals but use prior and anticipated price movements as a key component of their analysis, and base trading decisions on whether they have a superior understanding of upcoming events like new product launches, earnings surprises, and shifts in competitive conditions. "these investors study the history of this security noting how the price has moved in response to changes in those economic factors that are thought to influence it earnings industry conditions new product introductions improvements in production technology management shake-ups growth and demand shifts in financial leverage new plant and Equipment Investments Acquisitions of other companies and divestitures of lines of business and so on...they then try to anticipate how the critical variables on this list are likely to change relying in large measure on company and Industry sources" Unlike value investors, they do not focus on the level of price relative to underlying value or incorporate margin of safety. "it focuses on prior and anticipated changes in prices not on the level of prices relative to underlying values ... this approach does not incorporate an identifiable margin of safety to safeguard the investment for Mr Market's capricious Behavior"
3. Value Investing and Risk:
Volatility vs. Risk: Traditional financial theory defines risk as volatility in security prices. Value investors see risk as the probability of permanent loss. They argue that lower prices for a stock may actually reduce risk by increasing the margin of safety. "according to Modern investment theory yes because it would have increased the volatility of the prices according to Buffett not at all because it would have increased in already ample margin of safety"
Drawdowns: Statistical evidence shows that value stocks generally suffer smaller drawdowns (peak-to-trough declines) during market downturns than overall indexes or "glamour" stocks. Compound annual returns for value portfolios over the long-term have also historically exceeded those of the market averages. "the compound annual returns for the entire 30-year period were 9.2 percent for the s p and 12.9 percent for the cheapest quintile"
Risk and Margin of Safety: Risk is inversely related to the size of the margin of safety, which is the difference between the intrinsic value and the market price. "as a calculation of risk the margin of safety has nothing in common with the volatility of a Securities price in order to use it you have to acknowledge the existence of an intrinsic value and feel confident about your ability to estimate it"
4. The Search for Value:
Ugly, Boring, Obscure, Disappointing: Value stocks are often those that are "ugly, boring, obscure, disappointing," and thus cheap because they are overlooked by most investors. This leads to opportunities for astute investors. "embracing stocks that are ugly boring obscure disappointing and therefore cheap has historically been the best way to buy stocks in which you are likely to be on the right side of the trade"
Value Premium: Value stocks have historically outperformed "glamour" stocks over time and this premium appears to have persisted. “the value premium the return advantage of value relative to glamor stocks which was first identified by Benjamin Graham in the 1930s and systematically Quantified since the 1970s appears not to have diminished significantly over time”
Behavioral Biases: The value premium may persist due to behavioral biases, such as overconfidence, which lead investors to overvalue popular "glamour" stocks and undervalue neglected "value" stocks. "overconfidence Works to magnify the return distortions between glamor and value stocks until Evolution Works to eliminate it as a human characteristic the value anomaly is likely to persist"
Why Value Investors are "On the Right Side": Either the investor is particularly qualified to identify value or has overcome the behavioral and institutional biases of other investors. "you always have to ask why in a world of energetic intelligent investors this opportunity is being presented to you in particular why are you more likely to be on the right side of the trade in the case of specialization it is because you are particularly qualified to identify value in the case of a broad value approach it is because you have inoculated yourself against the behavioral and institutional biases that affect other investors"
5. Valuation Principles:
Intrinsic Value as a Basis: Securities have intrinsic values determined by the fundamentals of the underlying businesses, which is a departure from the idea that value is determined by speculation or market trends. “Securities have intrinsic values determined by the fundamentals of the underlying businesses.”
Superior Valuation Methodology: Value investors are advantaged by valuation methodology in that it helps them understand what they are getting for their money more effectively than other investors. "the historical and likely future successes of a value approach arise from a superior valuation methodology as well as a better search strategy"
Multiples Valuations: The single most widely used valuation method, which uses some measure of distributable cash flow, and applies a ratio of value to that cashflow to estimate value. "a multiple valuation has two components one some measure of the distributable cash flow that is generated today by a business or security two a ratio of value per dollar of this cash flow" Common measures include net income, operating earnings (EBIT), or EBITDA
Discounted Cash Flow (DCF): The theoretical ideal method, which sums the discounted value of all future cash flows to find present value but is often impractical to apply because of reliance on too many assumptions and because of the difficulties of making long-term forecasts especially related to terminal values. “the term discounted cash flow DCF is used to describe the calculation cram and Dodd disciples accept the concept and the calculation of Net Present Value as do all other fundamental investors”
Practical Limitations of DCF: the practical value of NPV analysis should be discounted because it over-relies on uncertain forecasts, especially terminal values. "the Practical value of npv analysis should be discounted"
Graham and Dodd's Three-Element Approach: A superior valuation framework involves separate consideration of a company's (1) assets, (2) earning power, and (3) profitable growth. This method segregates information by reliability and integrates strategic judgments about a company's competitive position.
Asset Value: the net reproduction value (or liquidation value) of a company's assets. "it is the net reproduction value of the assets what it would cost someone to replicate the assets necessary to operate this business for a non-viable business it is the liquidation value"
Earnings Power Value (EPV): The value of the company’s sustainable earning power (current earnings if the company did not grow.) "it is the second most reliably calculable element to value the data from which the EPV is calculated historical earnings and cash flows industry conditions and financial Market variables that determine the cost of capital are quite different from the data underlying the calculation of asset value"
Growth Value: The effect of future growth on value. In some cases, strategic analysis indicates that growth will not create value. In others, value is created in markets with strong competitive advantages. "the Strategic assumptions here are that the business is viable and that earnings are sustainable but not growing if the industry itself is not viable earnings power is only temporary and unlikely to add anything to the liquidation value of the assets"
6. Valuing Assets:
Liquidation vs. Reproduction Value: If the company is not viable (e.g., in a dying industry), assets should be valued at liquidation value. If viable, then value at reproduction cost (the cost to replace them.) "if it is not economically viable because for example its industry is in terminal decline then the value of the company's assets should be based on what they will bring in liquidation if the company is viable that means its assets will need to be reproduced as they wear out in that case they should be valued at the reproduction cost"
Reliability of Asset Valuations: Reliability diminishes moving down the balance sheet from cash to intangible assets, such as brand images or customer relationships. Intangibles often are worth little to nothing in liquidation. “as we work down the asset accounts from cash at the top whose value is unambiguous to various intangible assets whose value is often highly uncertain we recognize the decreasing reliability of our estimated values”
Importance of Industry Specialization: Where intangibles such as product portfolios are very important, industry specialization is crucial for accurately determining value. “where intangibles such as product portfolios are especially important industry specialization is critical”
Book of Business: A company’s customer relationships have value and must be considered a key intangible asset. “a second important and tangible asset is embodied in the company's book of business that is its Revenue base the customer relationships that underlie this Revenue cost money to develop and sh
1. Core Principles of Value Investing:
Mr. Market's Capriciousness: Financial market prices are volatile and subject to unpredictable mood swings. "Mr Market ... shows up every day to buy or sell any financial asset he is a strange fellow subject to all sorts of unpredictable mood swings that affect the price at which he is willing to do business."
Intrinsic Value vs. Market Price: Assets have an underlying economic value (intrinsic value) that is often different from their market price. “the intrinsic value of the security is one thing the current price at which it is trading is something else though value and price May on any given day be identical they often diverge.”
Margin of Safety: Value investors buy securities when their market price is significantly below their intrinsic value, creating a "margin of safety." This gap protects investors from errors in valuation or unexpected market downturns. "Graham referred to this gap between value and price as the margin of safety ideally the Gap should amount to about one half and not be less than one-third of the fundamental value he wanted to buy a dollar for 50 cents."
Simple Process: The core strategy is to estimate fundamental value, compare it to market price, and buy when price is below value by a sufficient margin of safety. “a value investor estimates the fundamental value of a Financial Security and Compares that value to the current price at which Mr Market is offering it if price is lower than value by a sufficient margin of safety the value investor buys the security”
Variations within Value Investing: While the master recipe is simple, value investors differ in how they approach security selection, valuation, margin of safety calculation, portfolio construction and diversification and selling timing. "were there legitimate descendants differ from one another where each may add his or her unique flavor is in the precise way they handle some of the steps involved in the process selecting Securities for valuation estimating their fundamental values calculating the appropriate margin of safety required for each security deciding how much of each security to buy which encompasses the construction of a portfolio and includes a choice about the amount of diversification the investor desires deciding when to sell securities"
2. Distinguishing Value Investors from Others:
Technical Analysts (Technicians): Focus on price movements and trading data, ignoring fundamental economic value. “technicians avoid fundamental analysis of any kind they pay no attention to a company's line of business its balance sheet or income statement the nature of its product markets or anything else that might concern a fundamental investor of any stripe they care nothing for economic value”
Macro Fundamentalists: Focus on broad economic factors (inflation, interest rates, etc.) and forecast broad trends, often employing a "top-down" approach and not calculating specific intrinsic value. "macro fundamentalists are concerned with broad economic factors that affect the universe of Securities as a whole or at least in large groups inflation rates interest rates exchange rates unemployment rates and the rate of economic growth at the national or even International level"
Micro Fundamentalists (Non-Value): These investors also study economic fundamentals but use prior and anticipated price movements as a key component of their analysis, and base trading decisions on whether they have a superior understanding of upcoming events like new product launches, earnings surprises, and shifts in competitive conditions. "these investors study the history of this security noting how the price has moved in response to changes in those economic factors that are thought to influence it earnings industry conditions new product introductions improvements in production technology management shake-ups growth and demand shifts in financial leverage new plant and Equipment Investments Acquisitions of other companies and divestitures of lines of business and so on...they then try to anticipate how the critical variables on this list are likely to change relying in large measure on company and Industry sources" Unlike value investors, they do not focus on the level of price relative to underlying value or incorporate margin of safety. "it focuses on prior and anticipated changes in prices not on the level of prices relative to underlying values ... this approach does not incorporate an identifiable margin of safety to safeguard the investment for Mr Market's capricious Behavior"
3. Value Investing and Risk:
Volatility vs. Risk: Traditional financial theory defines risk as volatility in security prices. Value investors see risk as the probability of permanent loss. They argue that lower prices for a stock may actually reduce risk by increasing the margin of safety. "according to Modern investment theory yes because it would have increased the volatility of the prices according to Buffett not at all because it would have increased in already ample margin of safety"
Drawdowns: Statistical evidence shows that value stocks generally suffer smaller drawdowns (peak-to-trough declines) during market downturns than overall indexes or "glamour" stocks. Compound annual returns for value portfolios over the long-term have also historically exceeded those of the market averages. "the compound annual returns for the entire 30-year period were 9.2 percent for the s p and 12.9 percent for the cheapest quintile"
Risk and Margin of Safety: Risk is inversely related to the size of the margin of safety, which is the difference between the intrinsic value and the market price. "as a calculation of risk the margin of safety has nothing in common with the volatility of a Securities price in order to use it you have to acknowledge the existence of an intrinsic value and feel confident about your ability to estimate it"
4. The Search for Value:
Ugly, Boring, Obscure, Disappointing: Value stocks are often those that are "ugly, boring, obscure, disappointing," and thus cheap because they are overlooked by most investors. This leads to opportunities for astute investors. "embracing stocks that are ugly boring obscure disappointing and therefore cheap has historically been the best way to buy stocks in which you are likely to be on the right side of the trade"
Value Premium: Value stocks have historically outperformed "glamour" stocks over time and this premium appears to have persisted. “the value premium the return advantage of value relative to glamor stocks which was first identified by Benjamin Graham in the 1930s and systematically Quantified since the 1970s appears not to have diminished significantly over time”
Behavioral Biases: The value premium may persist due to behavioral biases, such as overconfidence, which lead investors to overvalue popular "glamour" stocks and undervalue neglected "value" stocks. "overconfidence Works to magnify the return distortions between glamor and value stocks until Evolution Works to eliminate it as a human characteristic the value anomaly is likely to persist"
Why Value Investors are "On the Right Side": Either the investor is particularly qualified to identify value or has overcome the behavioral and institutional biases of other investors. "you always have to ask why in a world of energetic intelligent investors this opportunity is being presented to you in particular why are you more likely to be on the right side of the trade in the case of specialization it is because you are particularly qualified to identify value in the case of a broad value approach it is because you have inoculated yourself against the behavioral and institutional biases that affect other investors"
5. Valuation Principles:
Intrinsic Value as a Basis: Securities have intrinsic values determined by the fundamentals of the underlying businesses, which is a departure from the idea that value is determined by speculation or market trends. “Securities have intrinsic values determined by the fundamentals of the underlying businesses.”
Superior Valuation Methodology: Value investors are advantaged by valuation methodology in that it helps them understand what they are getting for their money more effectively than other investors. "the historical and likely future successes of a value approach arise from a superior valuation methodology as well as a better search strategy"
Multiples Valuations: The single most widely used valuation method, which uses some measure of distributable cash flow, and applies a ratio of value to that cashflow to estimate value. "a multiple valuation has two components one some measure of the distributable cash flow that is generated today by a business or security two a ratio of value per dollar of this cash flow" Common measures include net income, operating earnings (EBIT), or EBITDA
Discounted Cash Flow (DCF): The theoretical ideal method, which sums the discounted value of all future cash flows to find present value but is often impractical to apply because of reliance on too many assumptions and because of the difficulties of making long-term forecasts especially related to terminal values. “the term discounted cash flow DCF is used to describe the calculation cram and Dodd disciples accept the concept and the calculation of Net Present Value as do all other fundamental investors”
Practical Limitations of DCF: the practical value of NPV analysis should be discounted because it over-relies on uncertain forecasts, especially terminal values. "the Practical value of npv analysis should be discounted"
Graham and Dodd's Three-Element Approach: A superior valuation framework involves separate consideration of a company's (1) assets, (2) earning power, and (3) profitable growth. This method segregates information by reliability and integrates strategic judgments about a company's competitive position.
Asset Value: the net reproduction value (or liquidation value) of a company's assets. "it is the net reproduction value of the assets what it would cost someone to replicate the assets necessary to operate this business for a non-viable business it is the liquidation value"
Earnings Power Value (EPV): The value of the company’s sustainable earning power (current earnings if the company did not grow.) "it is the second most reliably calculable element to value the data from which the EPV is calculated historical earnings and cash flows industry conditions and financial Market variables that determine the cost of capital are quite different from the data underlying the calculation of asset value"
Growth Value: The effect of future growth on value. In some cases, strategic analysis indicates that growth will not create value. In others, value is created in markets with strong competitive advantages. "the Strategic assumptions here are that the business is viable and that earnings are sustainable but not growing if the industry itself is not viable earnings power is only temporary and unlikely to add anything to the liquidation value of the assets"
6. Valuing Assets:
Liquidation vs. Reproduction Value: If the company is not viable (e.g., in a dying industry), assets should be valued at liquidation value. If viable, then value at reproduction cost (the cost to replace them.) "if it is not economically viable because for example its industry is in terminal decline then the value of the company's assets should be based on what they will bring in liquidation if the company is viable that means its assets will need to be reproduced as they wear out in that case they should be valued at the reproduction cost"
Reliability of Asset Valuations: Reliability diminishes moving down the balance sheet from cash to intangible assets, such as brand images or customer relationships. Intangibles often are worth little to nothing in liquidation. “as we work down the asset accounts from cash at the top whose value is unambiguous to various intangible assets whose value is often highly uncertain we recognize the decreasing reliability of our estimated values”
Importance of Industry Specialization: Where intangibles such as product portfolios are very important, industry specialization is crucial for accurately determining value. “where intangibles such as product portfolios are especially important industry specialization is critical”
Book of Business: A company’s customer relationships have value and must be considered a key intangible asset. “a second important and tangible asset is embodied in the company's book of business that is its Revenue base the customer relationships that underlie this Revenue cost money to develop and sh
More episodes of the podcast The Smart Spin
# 285 Summary of Success Start with You
21/08/2025
ZARZA We are Zarza, the prestigious firm behind major projects in information technology.