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Listen "145. Is I-CBT Just Arguing With OCD?"
Episode Synopsis
Is Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) the only way to treat OCD? What if there’s another evidence-based approach that works differently and might even feel more intuitive to some?
In this episode of the OCD Whisperer Podcast, host Kristina Orlova brings together a panel of seasoned OCD clinicians: Mike Heady, Christina Ennabe, Mike Parker, Carl Robbins, and Bronwyn Shroyer. Together, they unpack the essentials of Inference-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT) and how it compares to ERP.
They bust common myths like whether ICBT is just arguing with your thoughts and explain how it helps people move out of imagined fears and back into reality. They also dive into when ERP might still be helpful, how ICBT handles doubt differently, and what the research says about its effectiveness.
Whether you're new to ICBT or trying to figure out which approach fits you best, this conversation brings depth, clarity, and a refreshing perspective on OCD treatment.
The 4 things you’ll learn in today’s episode:
Why mixing ICBT and ERP can be confusing if you don’t fully understand both
How ICBT focuses on obsessional doubt rather than just intrusive thoughts
What “reality sensing” really means and why it’s not the same as doing exposures
What the research says about ICBT’s effectiveness and how it compares to ERP
In This Episode
[00:31] Meet the panelists
[03:56] Can CBT and IBT/ICT be used together?
[07:29] Is CBT arguing with OCD?
[11:09] Doubt vs. intrusion in OCD
[17:49] Reality sensing vs. exposure
[20:40] Normal vs. obsessional doubt
[24:30] Reassurance in therapy
[26:22] Research and evidence for IBT/ICT
[36:07] Core fears and feared possible self
[37:34] Closing remarks and resources
Guests Featured
Mike Heady, Co-owner and co-director of the Anxiety and Stress Disorders Institute (ASDI), co- chair for ICBT SIG at IOCDF
Carl Robbins, Director of Training at ASDI and veteran OCD clinician
Christina Ennabe, Licensed therapist specializing in OCD and trauma, Board Member OCD New Hampshire
Mike Parker, Private practice owner focused on OCD using ICBT, ERP, and ACT. Host of the YouTube channel, OCD Space
Bronwyn Shroyer, LCSW, ICBT trainer, and co-founder of OCD Training School, co- chair for ICBT SIG at IOCDF
Resources & Links
Kristina Orlova, LMFT
Instagram
YouTube
OCD CBT Journal Tracker and Planner
Website
Christina Ennabe
Website
LinkedIn
https://www.christinaennabe.com/icbt-course-ocd-escaping-rabbit-hole
Mike Heady
Anxiety and Stress Disorders Institute
LinkedIn
Mike Parker
Website
LinkedIn
https://www.icbttrainingonline.com
Carl Robbins
Website
LinkedIn
Bronwyn Shroyer
Website
LinkedIn
OCD Training School
Please note, while our host is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in OCD and anxiety disorders in the state of California, this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for therapy.
Stay tuned for weekly episodes filled with valuable insights and tips for managing OCD and anxiety. And remember, keep going in the meantime. See you in the next episode!
In this episode of the OCD Whisperer Podcast, host Kristina Orlova brings together a panel of seasoned OCD clinicians: Mike Heady, Christina Ennabe, Mike Parker, Carl Robbins, and Bronwyn Shroyer. Together, they unpack the essentials of Inference-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT) and how it compares to ERP.
They bust common myths like whether ICBT is just arguing with your thoughts and explain how it helps people move out of imagined fears and back into reality. They also dive into when ERP might still be helpful, how ICBT handles doubt differently, and what the research says about its effectiveness.
Whether you're new to ICBT or trying to figure out which approach fits you best, this conversation brings depth, clarity, and a refreshing perspective on OCD treatment.
The 4 things you’ll learn in today’s episode:
Why mixing ICBT and ERP can be confusing if you don’t fully understand both
How ICBT focuses on obsessional doubt rather than just intrusive thoughts
What “reality sensing” really means and why it’s not the same as doing exposures
What the research says about ICBT’s effectiveness and how it compares to ERP
In This Episode
[00:31] Meet the panelists
[03:56] Can CBT and IBT/ICT be used together?
[07:29] Is CBT arguing with OCD?
[11:09] Doubt vs. intrusion in OCD
[17:49] Reality sensing vs. exposure
[20:40] Normal vs. obsessional doubt
[24:30] Reassurance in therapy
[26:22] Research and evidence for IBT/ICT
[36:07] Core fears and feared possible self
[37:34] Closing remarks and resources
Guests Featured
Mike Heady, Co-owner and co-director of the Anxiety and Stress Disorders Institute (ASDI), co- chair for ICBT SIG at IOCDF
Carl Robbins, Director of Training at ASDI and veteran OCD clinician
Christina Ennabe, Licensed therapist specializing in OCD and trauma, Board Member OCD New Hampshire
Mike Parker, Private practice owner focused on OCD using ICBT, ERP, and ACT. Host of the YouTube channel, OCD Space
Bronwyn Shroyer, LCSW, ICBT trainer, and co-founder of OCD Training School, co- chair for ICBT SIG at IOCDF
Resources & Links
Kristina Orlova, LMFT
YouTube
OCD CBT Journal Tracker and Planner
Website
Christina Ennabe
Website
https://www.christinaennabe.com/icbt-course-ocd-escaping-rabbit-hole
Mike Heady
Anxiety and Stress Disorders Institute
Mike Parker
Website
https://www.icbttrainingonline.com
Carl Robbins
Website
Bronwyn Shroyer
Website
OCD Training School
Please note, while our host is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in OCD and anxiety disorders in the state of California, this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for therapy.
Stay tuned for weekly episodes filled with valuable insights and tips for managing OCD and anxiety. And remember, keep going in the meantime. See you in the next episode!
In God we trust