Cynthia (Cindy) Upton is a Certified Grief Coach and B.R.E.A.T.H.E. Program Facilitator trained through the Confident Grief Coach Program and credentialed through the International Coaching Federation as an Associate Certified Coach (ACC). Cindy evolved into the grief coaching journey through personal life-loss experiences. Having met grief at an early age through the death of a teenage brother, Cindy learned the pain of family grief. As an adult, she experienced the heartache of becoming an adult orphan, navigated the loss of family through divorce, and sought new purpose in response to the solitude of an empty nest. Her heart intention became to partner with individuals and families adrift in grief but ready to re-orient to a new reality. The tools through the Confident Grief Coach Program help individuals learn to B.R.E.A.T.H.E and find a way to H.O.P.E. on their journey.


You can reach out to Cindy at: [email protected]

If you are interested in learning more about the Confident Grief Coach Certification Program, please go to www.healingfamilygrief.com

Download my Amazon Best Selling books "How Do I Survive: 7 Steps to Living After Child Loss", "Living Life in the Middle: The Caregiver's Guide to Healing, Hope and Harmony Through Multigenerational Living, and "The Confident Grief Coach: A Guide For Helping Clients Process Loss" for FREE at: www.healingfamilygrief.com  Sign up for a time to chat with me about becoming a confident grief coach: https://bit.ly/GriefCoachChat Download my free ebook, "The Confident Grief Coach: A Guide For Helping Clients Process Loss" here: https://theconfidentgriefcoach.mykajabi.com/griefcoach-free-book

#griefcoachingcerfication  #howtogetcertifiedasagriefcoach


Shownotes:

[00:00:07.320] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Hello, everybody. I'm really excited because tonight, well, wherever you're at, it could be today, it could be in the afternoon, it could be the morning, wherever you're at. But I am interviewing someone who is very special to me, and I'm excited for this episode. So Cynthia or Cindy, as we lovingly call her, Upton, is a certified grief coach and a brief program facilitator. So she's been trained through the Confident Grief Coach program. And she also was credentialed through the International Coaching Federation as an Associate Certified Coach. And I know that she's working very diligently to get to the next level, the PCC level. I just want to share that Cindy has been instrumental in helping me. We're doing some work together soon to be announced about how we're expanding the confident grief coach school. So I'm very happy and filled with gratitude for the work that she's doing with me. Cindy evolved into the grief coach and journey through first hand experiences. Having first met grief at a very early age through the death of her brother. So she really learned firsthand the pain, the challenges, the healing, all of that is part of family grief.

[00:01:26.430] - Pat Sheveland, Host
And she was introduced to many other phases of grief and loss as an adult. And in a quest to really process those losses while moving forward, she discovered coaching. She started her career path as a graduate of George Mason University with a communications degree. Awesome stuff. And fortunately, an opportunity landed her in a marketing position in Italy, of all places. How cool is that to get a marketing position in Italy? And while there, she got married and made a significant career change. She became a mom. And her primary role since that time has been raising her four daughters. And everything was just like, what would seem like a perfect life, shifted and shifted dramatically for her. And I'm going to have her share her story that includes death of loved ones, devastating illnesses, divorce, all these different things of these major transitions, and being this mom who is so dedicated to her daughters. And the transitions that go with being a mom and as your daughters grow up and get married or leave the home, the empty nest, all of that. I'll have her share a little bit about what she's been doing in her life as far as work.

[00:02:40.300] - Pat Sheveland, Host
She's done some really cool coaching stuff with tobacco cessation, that type of thing. But she also went down the path of becoming a certified spiritual coach. And that's where she really stepped into the life coaching, spiritual coaching, and then came into the grief coaching. So as she states, her heart purpose is to partner with individuals and families adrift in grief but ready to reorient to a new reality. Thank you so much, my friend, for being willing to be on the show here. I'm very excited about this because I just know that you have a vast amount of lived experience and knowledge through your coaching and being a mom and all of that different stuff. So do you want to talk a little bit, I briefly mentioned, but when that first period of grief entered your life when your brother died, and maybe just start sharing a little bit about your lived journey in as much or as little detail as you choose to do so.

[00:03:42.050] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Sure. And thank you, Pat. I'm really honored to be here on your show tonight. And I love the Confident Grief Coach and so happy that I found my way to you.

[00:03:55.740] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Me too.

[00:03:59.180] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Yes, I was 13 years old. I come from a family of four brothers and I'm the only girl. My brothers, the four oldest are Stair Step. It's my three older brothers and myself. Then six years later, my younger brother and the brother that passed away was my second oldest brother. Stevie is his name. He was 15 at the time. Stevie and my dad had a very shared love of sports cars and motorcycles and all things fast. He and my dad had my dad had taught him to drive. He had been driving, not with his driver's license, but dad would take him out on country roads and stuff like that. So he was a good driver. And when he turned 15, he participated with my dad in these, they were called autocrosses. It was like a rodeo for sports cars. Anyway, it was in one of these autocrosses, they were driving back. I remember it very vividly because I wasn't there. My older brothers and I, my other brothers and I had stayed home for the day. There was a huge thunderstorm. I live in Louisiana. When these storms come in, they're just blinding, you can't see.

[00:05:36.080] - Cindy Upton, Guest
At that time, the highway they were on, it was a two lane highway with no shoulders. The group that my parents were in, the autocross group, they caravan back, they caravaned to and from wherever they were doing an event. My brother was in line with the group following and a car got in front of them separated my brother from my parents. My brother pulled over and I guess he couldn't see and he hit a guard rail and it skid him into another lane. And so my parents, you can only imagine, they witnessed the whole thing. So they were supposed to be home that night and I remember getting up very early in the morning and they weren't there. And my dad called and he said, we're at the hospital. Stevey's been in an accident. And he said, I just want you to know that whatever happens is in God's plan. So later that day, he passed.

[00:06:49.980] - Pat Sheveland, Host
How old were you, Cindy?

[00:06:51.920] - Cindy Upton, Guest
I was 13. I did not realize until I became a parent the pain of my parents. I knew I saw them grieve. My mother, in particular, she was just a faith filled woman. She just in her pain, she handled it with grace, and she had four other children that she needed to raise. I didn't see her crying a lot or anything like that. Of course, in the first few days were terrible, but she really just carried it with grace, and she just had such a deep faith that pulled her through it. My dad did as well. He was a very faithful man, but he was very angry with God, and he went through a period where we would go to church and he wouldn't really participate, but he would go there with us. Then then I think I call it I don't know if you've seen Forest Gump, the Lieutenant Dan moment where he gets up on the mask and has his thing with God. That's how I envisioned my dad. I think it just all came out one time and he had his moment with God and then he found his peace anyway. But it just changed our family.

[00:08:29.700] - Cindy Upton, Guest
I have to say, not in a bad way, actually in a good way, because I think it made us all appreciate one another much more. We were getting into those teenage years where my older brothers were and where my parents prioritized making us do things as a family.

[00:08:53.280] - Pat Sheveland, Host
That's beautiful. What a huge thing because in a lot of families, it could be the older brothers might derail because their grief takes them off and they're teenagers and you. You're a young teen. And how old was your little brother?

[00:09:09.480] - Cindy Upton, Guest
My little brother was six. And it's so interesting because he doesn't remember much about it. I think he was. But anyway, he doesn't remember a lot about it. He remembers pieces of it. But this year I traveled with my brother and his family, and his kids wanted me to tell the story. And they asked a lot of questions, and his wife asked a lot of questions because my brother doesn't have the answers to a lot of them. It's not something he remembers. And so it's not anything that as a family, we did not talk about the incident, really, but we always talked about my brother. So it wasn't like you can't mention his name or what have you. And so we kept his memory alive.

[00:10:11.210] - Pat Sheveland, Host
So he's still absolutely a part of your family and remains so. And how beautiful. Was there anything for your parents? I know that from the faith perspective, that really is where they rode that faith, especially your mother. It was probably your mother's faith that finally brought your dad and your dad, your father, around like, okay, let's get up on the math and let's have this conversation, God. Did they have specific people through their church or who was their support network? Do you know?

[00:10:42.800] - Cindy Upton, Guest
I remember the first day that this happened, my mom sold real estate and the couple that she worked for, they had lost a son. And so I remember very vividly, she came over and there were people at our house all day. They rallied. I mean, we had food for months, that thing. I think she was one that provided some counsel to my mother and to support because she had been through the same thing. At that time, I don't remember my parents going to counseling. It seems like at that time, I never really heard about anybody going to therapy or to counseling or anything like that. So I know my mother had her tribe, so to speak. I think my dad bullied through it. And then later he started going on a retreat, and he was faithful to that retreat till the year he passed. And it was a men's silent retreat. And I think that it was in those times that he was really able to process. I think in the beginning, he probably just threw himself back into work.

[00:12:08.650] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Very typical, yeah. And to take care of his family. He had children and a wife and not uncommon for grieving dads. That's where they're going to throw themselves into. I love the fact because you know a bit of my story with my mom. Our next door neighbor lost a child years after Greg died. Greg was a baby, and their son, Joey, was like my best friend and he was three. But all those years they lived next door. They never talked to each other. No one ever shared their loss so that this woman, your mom's, the people who own that realtor company, to come forward and hold her emotionally and that your mom knew that there is a way to survive this, probably didn't know how at the time, but just to have someone to lean into just because she was there and she got it. Yeah. Understood, right? Yeah. How beautiful. You really learned at a young age. We're deeply immersed into life changes in a moment, but also leaning into the spiritual aspect. I think I definitely have my spirituality and my beliefs and that type of thing. But what I've seen is family members who lose that and cannot lean into their faith that there's something beyond here in this moment, in this structured world.

[00:13:40.270] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Those are the people who really struggle. I'm not advocating go out and join a church or do whatever, people need to do what's right for them. But when you talk about your dad going to this silent retreat, I just imagine that that's when he talked to Stevey. Not just God, but that's when he talked to Stevey. And I just wrote for my email and newsletter about consciously connecting with our loved ones because they're not physically here for Valentine's Day. We're recording this night before Valentine's Day. But there's so many people that are missing their loved one and feeling so sad. Yet we teach in the breathe coaching model that there's ways to consciously connect by having a conversation, by writing a letter, maybe journaling a little bit. I pray to my mom. Now, she's not a saint. She's not been declared a saint for my old Catholicism days. But I pray to her. I look to her for counsel, and I believe that the answers come. Now, maybe the answers are within me, and that's just opening me up. But you really started on this journey. And then let's talk about some of the other significant times when it felt like your life was just totally derailing.

[00:15:00.620] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Probably, not probably. The next time that it really totally derailed is in December 31st of 2002, my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and it was just gut wrenching for my family. The diagnosis, the prognosis, it was terminal. During this time, I didn't know this, but my husband at the time had planned to leave me on that day.

[00:15:39.760] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Oh, wow.

[00:15:41.560] - Cindy Upton, Guest
So didn't know. Didn't know there were some issues. Anyway, fast forward. My mother was... They only gave her three months to live and she ended up living a year and a half. But my husband at the time decided that June first was a good day to call it quits. And so my mother's dying and my spouse walked out the door.

[00:16:12.300] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Wow.

[00:16:12.960] - Cindy Upton, Guest
It was really and it was very shocking. It was very shocking for my children and myself. It was rough. It was rough. That was really a time that was, do I grieve for my mother? It took away my being able to be with my mother in grief because I had to now take care of divorced and there were two things happening at the same time and very life changing. Like I said, my former spouse left on June first and I moved my children and myself into a new house. By that November, we were in a different house. Lots of extenuating circumstances that necessitated that. Anyway, it was a lot. It was a lot for my children. It was a lot for myself. Again, if I didn't have my faith, that's when really the rubber meets the road. You say faith can either be something that we talk about and it's yeah, I do. I believe. But at that time, I needed support and I needed more than anybody here on earth could give me. And that's where I could connect. And so I started my routine in my daily meditations. I just wake up and that's the first thing I do.

[00:17:54.140] - Cindy Upton, Guest
I go get my coffee and get back in bed and that's my time. And then at night before I go to bed. But that's what got me through it. So after my mom passed and things settled into what was now our new life. I had decided that I was going to go back to school and get a degree in counseling and help because my calling, I felt like God gave me this for a purpose and I wanted to help other people going through this. But putting four kids through school, it wasn't optional for me at that time. It wasn't available to me at.

[00:18:43.060] - Pat Sheveland, Host
That time. It wasn't in the budget.

[00:18:43.860] - Cindy Upton, Guest
It wasn't in the budget. It wasn't in the budget. Yeah. Anyway, when my youngest daughter graduated high school, I was still searching and I don't even know how I came upon life coaching. I guess just in my searching for things to do. I came upon Christian coaching, spiritual life coaching, and what have you. A friend of mine introduced me to a counselor, a therapist, and so I said, Listen, I just need to run this past you. I said, I'm really interested in doing this, but is this some internet thing? I mean, is.

[00:19:25.760] - Pat Sheveland, Host
This real?

[00:19:28.800] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Because this is in 16 and everything was... There was no physical school, everything was online. And she said, actually, yes, it is. She said that is it's growing. Coaching is really growing. It's really flourishing. And she said, the beauty is, she said, she was speaking from her perspective as a counselor, she said, I am so booked right now. And she said, I wish that I had somebody that did not have mental health, if they don't have mental health issues, if they just need somebody to walk with them, some accountability, some... They're in a healthy place of acceptance. She said I would definitely refer to a life coach. Wow. It was a big endorsement for life coaching. And so that's where my journey started. And so then the way I got into tobacco cessation is one of my friends worked in that world in tobacco policy for tobacco prevention. And she was going to a training and she said, you should think about this, Cindy, because then you could get... There was a program in Louisiana where there was a lawsuit and people were being... Their treatment was being paid for. And so she said, then you could get your coaching hours.

[00:20:57.120] - Cindy Upton, Guest
And so that's what I did.

[00:20:59.980] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Right. Yes. All of these things just come together. I'm just going back. So you had so much layered grief because your mom's dying, your husband at the time decides, Okay, this marriage is dying, so you have a lot of death and dying going on. Then you're grieving for your children who are grieving their family unit. You're grieving for yourself. You're grieving for your mom. I mean, it's just like a snowball effect of grief and that you lean into your faith. And when you were talking about that, I had one time my husband had sleep apnea, but we didn't know it. This was before sleep apnea was really diagnosed. And it's just gaining a lot of weight. And he was just like, Just not himself. And intuitively, one night I'm like, Something's wrong. Is there something wrong? And he said, I don't want to tell you because I'm afraid there's something really wrong. I said, I'm taking you to the emergency room right now. I took him to the emergency room. And his oxygen level, for anybody who's in the medical field, his oxygen levels were in the 40s and his carbon dioxide was in the 80s.

[00:22:07.280] - Pat Sheveland, Host
So he totally flip flopped, right? And he was dying and his organs were shutting down and his kidneys were shutting down. And it was just like, and they told me if you had not brought him in, he probably would have been dead within an hour or so. When we got him in there, we didn't know what was wrong. And so he's in the intensive care and just trying to figure out what the heck is going on with this guy. Because again, sleep apnea was not the thing. And one evening, he was given a medication that I think it was just a standing order, PRN order for someone as needed for sleep. I don't know why he was given that as needed medication because he had no kidney function, really, and couldn't process it. When I got in the next morning because small child at home and I was home that night, I go in and he's literally lying in front of me. Oh, my gosh, how could this happen? What happened? What happened? I remember I went home to take a break from the hospital and I knelt on my knees and I just said, God, I was all by myself but I'm just hollering, I need you.

[00:23:12.180] - Pat Sheveland, Host
When you said there's times in this world that there's nowhere else to lean on. You have to just lean into something that is so much greater than any of us or any of our loved ones can support us in. I had people calling me and my mom wanted to be there at the hospital and all that. I was just like, No way. I just I needed to totally lean in, which I've done throughout my life. But it was a prophetic time. And that's what I heard from you. It's just like, this is not a show about spirituality or whatever religion, but this is about spirituality. It is about connecting with, we can't do this always on our own. And when we're working with people who are so devastatingly destroyed by their grief, their child, their spouse, all of these traumatic things, where else can they go? We can all have really good intentions. But leaning into something, and so in the grief coaching model for grief, I use acronyms. But there's a reason why some of these acronyms show up. One of them is faith. It was like finding awesome inspiration to heal. For me, faith has many different faces and colors and shapes and sizes.

[00:24:27.240] - Pat Sheveland, Host
That's when we talk about faith. It's like leaning into our faith. It may be a spiritual. I think about your mom, you're Catholic, right? I was born and raised a Catholic, not practicing for a lot of years. But I think about Mother Mary and how my mom always prayed and Mother Mary, the Virgin Mary was her go to person. She didn't talk to God. She prayed the Mary. Well, it only makes sense because that was a grieving Mary. It was very much a grieving mother. That heart to heart connection, like with your mom. I just imagine that really they just like they put it on the altar to Mary and just like, please help me. Please help me.

[00:25:07.660] - Cindy Upton, Guest
My mother had a special relationship with the blessed mother as well. And one thing I have appreciated with the Confident Grief Coach school is I've learned about other forms of spirituality, and I've watched people through their grief, how they connect to whatever their spirituality is and lean into that. That's been interesting for me. Right.

[00:25:38.150] - Pat Sheveland, Host
But I think you just look at your family and your informative years, that is where you were taught, you learned by being totally immersed in that, that having faith in something that is greater than ourselves, it helped your family, where they didn't get destroyed by Stevie's death. You actually got stronger and bonded more. And what a beautiful, beautiful thing. I thank you for sharing that because these stories are a lot. And now your children are grown. And I just want to say, just looking across at you, you're the most amazing mother. You're one of the most amazing nurturing mothers I've ever seen in the way that you have such a relationship with your girls.

[00:26:27.570] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Thank you.

[00:26:29.420] - Pat Sheveland, Host
They're lucky. They're really fortunate to have such an extraordinary, wise mother.

[00:26:34.650] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Thank you.

[00:26:35.250] - Pat Sheveland, Host
One of the things that we do at the Confident Grief Coach school is we utilize a tool called human design, which you had never heard of before. And as coming in, I hire someone to actually do a human design session, coaching session with each one of the students. And you are a projector in the human design world. And so the projectors, as my teacher, Robin, would always say, you're the wise guides of humanity. That you're sitting back and you're just really processing and seeing what's happening here and listening. Then when you speak, there's such jewels that show up because you just have this way. So talk to me, how has that helped in your coaching journey to understand that that really is? Like you said, I was being directed by God, I need this is a path to go, whether it's counseling or coaching or whatever, but then to actually become aware of, oh, my gosh, human design. This is who I was born to be. So how did that impact what you do in working with your... I mean, in your present work that you do or in coaching people or even in your own family?

[00:27:51.330] - Pat Sheveland, Host
What's shown up there for you?

[00:27:53.480] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Well, I've been invited to volunteer at this point with Catholic Charities to lead some grief groups and divorce groups. I'm really excited about that. I think one thing I've learned in coaching is to really understand that listening is so important. We don't have to advise. I used to think, especially as a mother, that I'd have to give all this advice and make sure I said everything and all that. And then in the process of coaching, I've learned that, no, it's better if it comes from the individual, if they decide. And so that's been really one of the beauties, I think, of what I've learned from coaching. And I think it's helped me, too, just in my everyday life. And it's really interesting how grief will come to you. Last week, I met with a woman that I do work with in the community, and I don't know her well. I was dropping some things off at their office, and she just randomly said to me, I don't know how she said, weighed into it, but she said, It's a beautiful day. I need the sunshine. My son was killed in a hit-and-run in the summer.

[00:29:27.560] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Oh, my God.

[00:29:28.230] - Cindy Upton, Guest
This past summer. I said, Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. And so she just right there in the parking lot, we just had a conversation. I didn't really say much, but she needed to get something off her heart. And so I love that now that I've learned more about the grief space and how to talk to people or how to listen to people, I really just listen to her. And that's all she needed.

[00:30:01.260] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Just safe space. And I believe that those of us doing this work, we have an essence, an aura around us that I do believe that we are the light houses. That's our job. That's our job here is to be the light houses and be those beacons of light so that people know they can see us in that sea that's raging and tumultuous and the waves are crashing and throwing them down on the ground in their deep grief. We're this beacon of light that here's the shore. Here's the shore. Just keep with us and we're going to get you to safety. We're going to help you. We're going to help you in any way that we can by helping you help yourself.

[00:30:44.970] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Yes. And I think that's part two of what drew me to coaching. After I divorced, unfortunately, it was like a domino effect in my community. And so there were a group of us and people would call me and just want to talk about it. And I think it's because I survived. Life goes on.

[00:31:10.730] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Yes. It's thrived. You didn't just survive, you thrived. Your children thrived.

[00:31:17.160] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Yes. There's still pain. There's still things. But yes, they have. They've thrived. And I'm so proud of them. They do a lot of work. They do a lot of work on themselves, and they're just amazing. And I think that that's it. And that's really the women who were divorced after me. It was like, we need something. I need to... Okay, the counseling is not going to work out, but something needs to. It's not that I have the answers, but I'm somebody to talk to.

[00:31:57.860] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Right. Absolutely. You're volunteering at Catholic, that's a new thing. This being able to volunteer for Catholic charities and help people in divorce, helping people who are in the death and dying phase, probably. I mean, grief is so all encompassing. When I talk about grief, mine actually was working with grieving moms, and that was where I started very specifically. But I, too, am a divorcee. And that was a death. And I don't think anybody, unless they've gone through it, understands, even if things were not great in the midst of it, we still signed those papers and committed that this was going to be for the rest of our lives. And so when that dies, there's a whole dance that I always say dance, but dance that we need to do with life. And we can choose to either let it fumble us to the knees and not seek the help like the time that I did for my husband. And he actually, we found out what the issue was, right? Can I just share that quick story? Yes. I dropped to my knees in the kitchen floor. I wasn't talking to anybody and I just said, God, we need your help.

[00:33:10.120] - Pat Sheveland, Host
I cannot. No, this cannot happen. This cannot be happening. We have three children. This cannot be happening. I went back to the hospital and they said, We think we need to transport him to a bigger hospital. There's someone that is a specialist in the lungs and respiratory and all of that stuff. They got him over there and they put him on what's called a BiPAP machine. People have heard of CPAPs and they put him and she goes, I have no idea what's going on with him, but I just have this feeling to do this. And imediately, it shifted and he started getting well.

[00:33:44.210] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Wow.

[00:33:45.100] - Pat Sheveland, Host
He's got sleep apnea. He'll have to be on this machine the rest of his life. But that is what all these symptoms and the weight and the kidney function, all of these things all had to do with that. And then it was like the next week, I think, that there was a major football player who died from sleep apnea. So I'm like the sleep apnea advocate. Anytime someone's snoring a lot around you, they should have a sleep study. But that was like that divine intervention that by letting it go, something shifted.

[00:34:12.740] - Pat Sheveland, Host
And whether I believe in God, that was what I believed is that God made sure, because I just laid it out there and that changed. And I think that's with when we're going through these really trying times. And what we do when we're coaches is helping our clients. Like you said, you've heard lots of people. You've met so many people that we open the space. There is no judgment. And I don't care if you have a belief system. If you don't have a belief system, you can be atheist, you can be agnostic, you can be fully immersed into it. You can hug your trees and go out and do forest bathing. You can do anything. I've done it all. I think I've pretty much. But it's the whole thing that we're doing as coaches is to provide you as the client, the space to explore what's meaningful for you to be able to take that one step forward. And we're holding you by... I just feel like we're gently holding them by the arm, right? Yes. Just walking this path and just saying, we've got you and you get wobbly, lean on me. Yes. But you have the answers.

[00:35:20.260] - Pat Sheveland, Host
I don't have the answers. I can't tell you where to go or what to do. I can just be there. And that's what you do is you hold that space so beautifully for people.

[00:35:28.310] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Thank you. You do too, Pat. You do too.

[00:35:33.560] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Let's talk a little bit about that. So Cindy and I have been collaborating with the Confident Grief Coach school, and it's a journey. We really strongly believe in being certified coaches. We know that we're both certified through the International Coaching Federation, which is, I would say, gold star standard for coaching. Anybody can hang a shingle out and say they're a coach. Anybody can create a coaching program and say, Oh, here's this coaching program. Really, pretty much anybody could say, I can certify you and print out a certificate, especially in this day and age, I can print out certificates and certify you as a certified coach. But when the Confident Grief Coach and the certification, when that was a message that came to me a couple of years ago, I knew that it needed to be blessed by the International Coaching Federation, that it was built on that structure, the core competencies, the ethics, that really incredible base of what coaching should be to make sure that it's safe and we're doing the right things for our clients. That's where the Confident Grief Coach certification came from. And now Cindy is working with me to help create a program that's just really focused on the core competencies of the International Coaching Federation.

[00:36:58.280] - Pat Sheveland, Host
So it's really part of our course. It's a course, it's a separate course in the Confident Grief Coach program, but we're working on having all of this so that people can feel like, if I want to be a certified coach, that they have the ability to do that through our model from that perspective. So we hold those standards so deep within who we are. And so that's where Cindy has been my absolute bestie, helping me because she's the wise guide to humanity, so she can bring me some real wisdom. I can attest to the fact for everybody who's listening, part of what we do in creating these programs is we record coaching sessions. Cindy has been my coach, and we're doing real life coaching in those sessions. I'm coming to her saying, I've got a challenge over here. That's the beauty of it is all of us can be coached and we can't coach ourselves. It's like Mary Ann Williamson used to say, You can't priest yourself. Psychotherapists cannot be their own psychotherapists. It's been just really wonderful to have someone who is a certified coach coaching me and making a difference, making a difference even in my own life. I thank you for that.

[00:38:18.500] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Well, it's been fun. I'm excited about the course.

[00:38:22.660] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Yes. So what I'd like to do, we're getting towards the end here is, if there was one thing that you could share to the audience, whether they are grieving a significant loss, a life event, the loss of someone that they love, or they want to be the helpers, they want to be the supporters to the people, what would be the one thing that you would like them to... What's your gem of wisdom that you would like them to walk away with today?

[00:38:53.720] - Cindy Upton, Guest
To just be present with that person. If you're with somebody who is transitioning or soon to be transitioned, just let that person know that they're loved and they're held and listen to what they have to say. It's been interesting in my own experience, in particular with my dad that passed 10 years after my mom, but on the day the day he passed, he was in hospice, but I put his headset on and he loved listening to music and he had his country songs going and he'd tap his fingers to the music. Then as it got closer, I put on he loved traditional Catholic music. I will share this story. I put on one that had not immaculate Mary. Oh, gosh. Now I'm not going to remember the song. Anyway, it was one of my mother's favorite songs. And so it came on as my dad, Aave Maria, as my dad was passing. That's the song that came on when my dad was passing. And the next day, I took the little boombox that we had the CD and I took it home with me and I had the CD in there. The next morning, I was getting ready and just processing my grief and all that.

[00:40:38.860] - Cindy Upton, Guest
The boombox started playing and it was Ave Maria.

[00:40:43.300] - Pat Sheveland, Host
All by itself?

[00:40:44.230] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Yes.

[00:40:44.800] - Pat Sheveland, Host
I love that. That's the stuff I love. See, that's what I hope that people will... Whether they're listening to us or the people that we're working with, it's not Louis, but life, energy, it's energy. And our loved ones will be with us forever. The love in our heart, the love in their heart, never dissipates because Einstein told us that. Energy, we can't destroy it. We can't create it, we can't destroy it. But it can be transformed. And that's what happens. That's why the butterfly has always been my symbol since I was a little girl is just that whole transformative process. And that's what happens. So what a beautiful story.

[00:41:26.640] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Yeah, it was pretty amazing. I know people probably think I'm crazy, but it happened.

[00:41:34.810] - Pat Sheveland, Host
Not the people that we hang around with.

[00:41:36.760] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Not people. But it was just so comforting and it just made me smile. And I said, Okay, dad, I hear you. I'm good.

[00:41:49.130] - Pat Sheveland, Host
I have a feeling for the rest of this evening. That's the song that's going to be going in my head, too. I'm going to be singing it, probably not at the right pitch or with as much grace and beauty as the people that normally sing it in church or on stages. But it definitely is a powerful, powerful, beautiful song. What a way to transition, right? So beautiful. Well, thank you so much for spending time with us tonight. I'm looking forward to getting this episode up and running so that everybody can see the beautiful work that you do. We'll have your contact information and the show notes. For people in your area, where do you live? I mean, the Catholic Charities... Is it a diocese?

[00:42:34.640] - Cindy Upton, Guest
It's the Catholic Charities of Central Louisiana. And so I can send you the link to put in the show notes because that's how you schedule through that link.

[00:42:46.940] - Pat Sheveland, Host
And I really encourage for those of you in Central Louisiana, if you're listening to this and it's on your heart and you're thinking, Wow, or you know someone, check out the Catholic Charities page. We'll have it in the show notes so that's a way that maybe you can connect with Cindy and just have a conversation. Just like the conversation in the parking lot. Sometimes that's all we need is just to have that conversation and then see if it makes sense to move forward with someone who can support you, such as a grief coach or life coach, spiritual coach, whatever resonates for you. Thank you so much.

[00:43:23.910] - Cindy Upton, Guest
Thank you, Pat.

[00:43:25.400] - Cindy Upton, Guest
I know we'll see each other real quick here. All right, take care. everybody. Thank you. Bye. Bye.


Contact us:
Cami Thelander: www.bearfootyogi.com
The Confident Grief Coach School: www.healingfamilygrief.com

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