In this episode, we dive into the complex world of debt and justice, asking why poorer countries are paying the highest price through soaring interest rates and crippling financial systems. We explore how debt links directly to the climate crisis, and why changing the way we talk about it could shift global understanding and support for justice. Together, we unpack insights from the Money Talks initiative, which looks at how empathy, storytelling, and smarter communication can reshape public perceptions of debt. From the moral weight of repayment to the demand for fairness between rich and poor countries, this conversation sheds light on why debt justice is central to social and climate justice. Guests: • Liz Callegari: Co-founder of Black Sands Communication and co-lead of the Money Talks project, with deep experience in strategic campaigns, including WWF-UK and Netflix’s Our Planet. https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-callegari-0b8365b/ • Twan van der Togt: Associate Director at Stack Data Strategy, specialising in cross-national research and turning complex opinion data into strategies for NGOs and campaigners. https://www.linkedin.com/in/twan-van-der-togt-99130b146/ • Khaliel Moses: Senior Campaigner for Public Finance at 350.org, driving economic and climate justice across Africa through education, research, and grassroots campaigns. https://www.linkedin.com/in/khaliel-moses-0540b11b0/ In this episode, we cover: • Why debt is often described as “a tax on the future” • How everyday experiences shape views on public finance • Why fairness in global interest rates matters • The role of empathy in bridging North–South divides • How framing and storytelling can drive public support for debt relief • The link between debt justice and climate justice • What activists can do to make debt issues resonate with people’s lives Want to learn more? • LSM Calculator: https://www.eighty20.co.za/lsm-calculator/ • Money Talks: https://moneytalksresearch.org • Black Sands Communication: https://www.blacksands.co.uk • Stack Data Strategy: https://www.stackdatastrategy.com • 350.org: https://350africa.org

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