Matthew talks about his personal experience with adoption and how it has impacted his life, including the practical and spiritual aspects of adoption. They also discussed the concept of the spirit of adoption and touched on the topic of harmony and its relation to biology and the universe, all while exploring the deeper connections between art, science, and spirituality. Matthew shared his inspiring story of adopting four children in four years and how it has helped him embody high ideas and become a better person. He talked about his transformation from a Protestant, charismatic worldview to an Orthodox and symbolic worldview and how Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Pageau have been instrumental in his journey. He also discussed the challenges of adopting children who have experienced trauma and the importance of foster families in providing love and support. Matthew and Karen discussed the importance of commitment in pursuing the good and finding rest in God. They explored how committing to self-emptying can lead to creating a better reality, particularly in parenting.

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