Listen "How the brains of master meditators change"
Episode Synopsis
Richie Davidson has spent a lifetime studying meditation. He’s studied it as a practitioner, sitting daily, going on retreats, and learning under masters. And he’s pioneered the study of it as a scientist, working with the Dalai Lama to bring master meditators into his lab at the University of Wisconsin and quantifying the way thousands of hours of meditation changed their brains.
The word “meditation,” Davidson is quick to note, is akin to the word “sports”: It describes a huge range of pursuits. And what he’s found is that different types of meditation do very different things to your brain, just as different sports trigger different changes in your body.
This is a conversation about what those brain changes are, and what they mean for the rest of us. We discuss the forms of meditation Westerners rarely hear about, the differences between meditative and psychedelic states, the Dalai Lama’s personality, why elite meditators end up warmhearted and joyous rather than cold and detached, whether there’s more value to meditating daily or going on occasional retreats, what happens when you sever meditation from the ethical frameworks it evolved in, and much more.
Book recommendations:
Freedom in Exile: The Autobiography of the Dalai Lama by Dalai Lama
The Principles of Psychology by William James
In Love With the World: A Monk's Journey Through the Bardos of Living and Dying by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
The Joy of Living: Unlocking the Secret and Science of Happinessby Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
10% Happierby Dan Harris
The Mind Illuminated: A Complete Meditation Guideby John Yates
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The word “meditation,” Davidson is quick to note, is akin to the word “sports”: It describes a huge range of pursuits. And what he’s found is that different types of meditation do very different things to your brain, just as different sports trigger different changes in your body.
This is a conversation about what those brain changes are, and what they mean for the rest of us. We discuss the forms of meditation Westerners rarely hear about, the differences between meditative and psychedelic states, the Dalai Lama’s personality, why elite meditators end up warmhearted and joyous rather than cold and detached, whether there’s more value to meditating daily or going on occasional retreats, what happens when you sever meditation from the ethical frameworks it evolved in, and much more.
Book recommendations:
Freedom in Exile: The Autobiography of the Dalai Lama by Dalai Lama
The Principles of Psychology by William James
In Love With the World: A Monk's Journey Through the Bardos of Living and Dying by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
The Joy of Living: Unlocking the Secret and Science of Happinessby Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
10% Happierby Dan Harris
The Mind Illuminated: A Complete Meditation Guideby John Yates
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
More episodes of the podcast The Gray Area with Sean Illing
It’s okay to not be okay
22/12/2025
Forgiveness is optional
15/12/2025
The pornification of everything
08/12/2025
What counts as progress?
01/12/2025
How to survive awkward encounters
17/11/2025
Truth in an age of doublethink
10/11/2025
The case against free will
03/11/2025
What the climate story gets wrong
27/10/2025
The Great Enshittening
20/10/2025
America chose violence. Now what?
13/10/2025
ZARZA We are Zarza, the prestigious firm behind major projects in information technology.