Listen "How social media makes us antisocial"
Episode Synopsis
Andrew Marantz is a writer at the New Yorker who, for years, has been deeply immersed in the world of conservative trolls, alt-right social media personalities, and online conspiracy theorists. His most recent book Antisocial has been viewed as a brilliant ethnography of the bizarre universe that is the alt-right.
But I’m interested in it for a different reason: Somehow, these folks have figured out how to manipulate the social media ecosystem that frames our political discourse. Thus, they represent an important window into understanding how that ecosystem functions, who it advantages, and where it dramatically falls short. We discuss:
- Why Mark Zuckerberg’s defenses of Facebook so obviously fail
- Where the conversation about “free speech” in America went completely off the rails
- How alt-right personality Mike Cernovich cracked social media algorithms to influence the 2016 news cycle
- What Marantz calls the “primary laws of social media mechanics” and how they can be manipulated to bring out the worst in human nature
- Why conflict has become the primary way to garner attention and influence online while more constructive social interactions remain in obscurity
- How a kid from a progressive, upper-middle-class family became one of the nation’s leading neo-Nazis
- The role the social justice left plays in fomenting online extremism
And much more.
Book recommendations:
Contingency, Irony and Solidarity by Richard Rorty
The Captive Mind by Czesław Miłosz
Uncanny Valley by Anna Wiener
My book is available for pre-order! You can find it at www.EzraKlein.com.
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
You can subscribe to Ezra's new podcast Impeachment, explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app.
Credits:
Producer and Editor - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
But I’m interested in it for a different reason: Somehow, these folks have figured out how to manipulate the social media ecosystem that frames our political discourse. Thus, they represent an important window into understanding how that ecosystem functions, who it advantages, and where it dramatically falls short. We discuss:
- Why Mark Zuckerberg’s defenses of Facebook so obviously fail
- Where the conversation about “free speech” in America went completely off the rails
- How alt-right personality Mike Cernovich cracked social media algorithms to influence the 2016 news cycle
- What Marantz calls the “primary laws of social media mechanics” and how they can be manipulated to bring out the worst in human nature
- Why conflict has become the primary way to garner attention and influence online while more constructive social interactions remain in obscurity
- How a kid from a progressive, upper-middle-class family became one of the nation’s leading neo-Nazis
- The role the social justice left plays in fomenting online extremism
And much more.
Book recommendations:
Contingency, Irony and Solidarity by Richard Rorty
The Captive Mind by Czesław Miłosz
Uncanny Valley by Anna Wiener
My book is available for pre-order! You can find it at www.EzraKlein.com.
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
You can subscribe to Ezra's new podcast Impeachment, explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app.
Credits:
Producer and Editor - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
More episodes of the podcast The Gray Area with Sean Illing
It’s okay to not be okay
22/12/2025
Forgiveness is optional
15/12/2025
The pornification of everything
08/12/2025
What counts as progress?
01/12/2025
How to survive awkward encounters
17/11/2025
Truth in an age of doublethink
10/11/2025
The case against free will
03/11/2025
What the climate story gets wrong
27/10/2025
The Great Enshittening
20/10/2025
America chose violence. Now what?
13/10/2025
ZARZA We are Zarza, the prestigious firm behind major projects in information technology.