In this episode of "Secrets of AppSec Champions," host Chris Lindsey engages with Michael Vance, the CISO at Navient, to explore the nuances of bounty programs and their integration with traditional penetration testing. Michael discusses the journey of transitioning from a managed vulnerability disclosure program (VDP) to a full-scale bug bounty program. He highlights the importance of establishing clear policies and scopes for these programs to ensure effective and safe collaboration with external hackers. Through these structured programs, Navient was able to address resource constraints, boosting their testing capabilities threefold while reducing costs.  The conversation also delves into the historical challenges faced by companies in managing security reports, often due to mistrust and insufficient communication channels. Michael and Chris stress the value of legal, structured avenues for ethical hacking, enabling companies to receive and act on security findings without friction. They discuss the potential risks, such as the involvement of 'black hat' hackers, and how employing established platforms like Bugcrowd or HackerOne helps mitigate these concerns by vetting participants and managing the process. This approach not only enhances security but also publicly demonstrates the company's commitment to safeguarding data.  Towards the end, Michael shares invaluable advice for security practitioners: the critical need to fully understand the problems they are tasked with solving, which often involves grasping both technical and business aspects. This holistic understanding is crucial for devising effective security measures. The episode concludes with Chris thanking Michael for his insights, reaffirming the episode's focus on creating efficient, secure systems for managing and mitigating vulnerabilities through both internal efforts and external collaborations.Key Topics by time stamps: 04:40 Transitioning App Security Services: From Ethical Hacking to Testing Stream  06:43 Boosting Application Workload Capacity through Efficient Testing Measures  10:02 Establishing Policies and Rules for Ethical Hacking  14:47 Evaluating the Effectiveness of Repeated Testing  19:51 Reviving a Project and Uncovering Unexpected Flaws  21:59 Effective Security: Understanding the ProblemFor more amazing application security information, please visit the following LinkedIn communities:https://www.linkedin.com/company/appsec-hiveProvided by Mend.io  (https://mend.io)

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