When Daniel Caesar quietly dropped his album "Son of Spergy", most of the world didn’t see it coming. In this episode Joe and Toby dive deep into Caesar’s lead single “Call On Me,” uncovering the soulful layers, hidden nuance, and emotional depth that make his music feel both intimate and transcendent.

Per usual, the conversation starts with a laugh — Shakespeare references, hats, and Toby’s ongoing book of analogies — but soon spirals into an exploration of what harmony really means in music and in life.



Joe breaks out the guitar to dissect Caesar’s deceptively simple two-chord vamp, revealing how small changes in tonality and phrasing can create something entirely fresh in pop music. Toby draws parallels between gospel, jazz, and the improvisational genius that defines Caesar’s sound — a sound that lives in tension between structure and soul.

Together, they explore:


The gospel and jazz DNA behind Caesar’s harmonies

How musical “vocabularies” shape every artist — and why Caesar’s is joyfully odd

The spiritual throughline in his songwriting and his relationship with his father

What it means to reconcile faith, creativity, and identity through art

Why harmony, not balance, is the truer metaphor for living a whole life


As the conversation unfolds, “Call On Me” becomes a mirror for something universal — how we all try to live as complex, imperfect humans in search of connection and clarity. Joe and Toby riff on everything from Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey to side quests in Zelda, from father-son relationships to finding the melody that ties our stories together.

By the end, what starts as a discussion about one artist’s song becomes a meditation on purpose, reconciliation, and the beauty of learning to live in harmony — musically, emotionally, and spiritually.
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