In this powerful and honest conversation, Pastors Andy and Matt share their firsthand experiences navigating modern church culture, wrestling with burnout, performance-driven ministry, and the sobering realization that much of what we’ve built isn’t led by the Spirit—but by strategy. What happens when the hype fades? What if the Sunday service isn’t the main thing? This episode challenges us to reverse the arrows, return to Scripture, and reignite the call to make disciples—not fans.

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