In this episode, I talk with Keith Sawyer about how creativity really works, especially when it happens in groups. We begin by challenging the common image of creativity as the result of a lone genius working in isolation. Keith explains how innovation often grows out of collaboration, improvisation, and the back-and-forth exchange of ideas. Drawing examples from jazz ensembles and brainstorming sessions, we discuss how structure and spontaneity combine to create moments of breakthrough.We also explore what research tells us about the conditions that help teams become more innovative. Keith shares why diversity of thought matters, how psychological safety fuels risk-taking, and why most brainstorming sessions fail to deliver. He explains that creativity isn’t just about sudden inspiration but about patterns of interaction that can be studied and encouraged.For anyone interested in education, work, or the arts, this conversation offers practical ways of thinking about collaboration and creativity. It highlights how we can create environments whether in classrooms, offices, or communities that don’t just value ideas but actively nurture the connections that make them possible.00:00 – Introduction: Meeting Keith Sawyer and his research on creativity and collaboration02:00 – From jazz piano to psychology: discovering improvisation as a science06:00 – How group improvisation shaped his philosophy of creativity10:00 – What creativity really means: newness, intention, and human adaptability14:00 – Improvisation as a model for life: responding to uncertainty18:00 – Collaboration, jazz, and how group dynamics create “group genius”22:00 – The myth of the lone genius and the truth behind collective creativity27:00 – How culture and education reinforce individualism over collaboration31:00 – Why creativity must be taught across all subjects, not just the arts35:00 – Deep knowledge versus superficial knowledge: what schools miss39:00 – How to teach creativity through project-based and interdisciplinary learning43:00 – Creativity and early education: why younger classrooms have an advantage47:00 – Integrating creativity in organizations and interdisciplinary research50:00 – Generative AI, animals, and what makes human creativity unique53:00 – Mindsets and practices: how to nurture creativity in any field55:00 – Closing reflections: improvisation, creativity, and what makes us human

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