Jacques Ellul advocates for non-violent resistance to evil throughout his writings, but there were moments in his life when he considered violent action. How, then, does one reconcile Ellul’s stated commitments to non-violence with what he shares in these interviews? The answer to this question is, well, as it usually is… complicated. And to try to simplify the answer is not only theoretically questionable, it’s practically dangerous. Why? For Ellul, it would risk generating justifications for violence that ought never to be justified.Ellul was not the only continental-European theologian who navigated these complex questions about and realities of violence during the war years. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, for example, is another such theologian who ascribed to non-violence, famously wrestled with these kinds of questions, and ultimately decided to participate in a plot to assassinate Hitler. In this conversation, I speak with Bonhoeffer scholar Kevin O’Farrell, who shares his perspective on the extent to which Bonhoeffer’s story and theology resists narration, systematization, and application—and, how the complexity of Bonhoeffer’s biography and witness issues both a challenge and an encouragement to people who want to resist evil without becoming evil in the process. As this conversation unfolds, it will become evident that both thinkers and activists shared similar contexts. Their theologies and ethics were forged in times of war and crisis, and both advocated for non-violence—even though they, at times, were drawn into violence given extreme, some would say exceptional, circumstances. My hope is that this conversation complicates, in a good way, accounts of violence and non-violence; accounts that are all too easily and dangerously simplified and systemized today.Guest BioKevin O’Farrell is Director of Theological Engagement for The Joni Eareckson Tada Disability Research Center. He has published on disability theology, biotechnological enhancements, and the theoloDiegy of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. His most recent book publication is Dietrich Bonhoeffer and a Theology of the Exception (London: Bloomsbury, 2024). Kevin holds a Ph.D. in Divinity from the University of Aberdeen.LinksDietrich Bonhoeffer and a Theology of the Exception (authored monograph): https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/dietrich-bonhoeffer-and-a-theology-of-the-exception-9780567709394/BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/kevinofarrell.bsky.socialAdditional ResourcesJacques Ellul and Patrick Troude-Chastenet, "Jacques Ellul on Politics, Technology, and Christianity": https://wipfandstock.com/9781597522663/jacques-ellul-on-politics-technology-and-christianity/Jacques Ellul, "Violence: Reflections from a Christian Perspective": https://wipfandstock.com/9781610977968/violence/Stephen R. Haines, "The Bonhoeffer Phenomenon: Portraits of a Protestant Saint:" https://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/product/9780800636524/The-Bonhoeffer-PhenomenonJohn W. De Gruchy, "The Bonhoeffer Question: A Life-Changing Conversation": https://www.amazon.ca/Bonhoeffers-Questions-Life-Changing-John-Gruchy/dp/1978707835Robert Vosloo, “Bonhoeffer, our Contemporary? Engaging Bonhoeffer on Time, the Times, and Public Theology.” The Bonhoeffer Legacy: An International Journal 5/2: 19-35. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv10h9f24Matthew Puffer, “Three Rival Versions of Moral Reasoning: Interpreting Bonhoeffer’s Ethics of Lying, Guilt, and Responsibility” Harvard Theological Review, Vol. 112, Issue 2, April 2019: 160-183. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/harvard-theological-review/article/abs/three-rival-versions-of-moral-reasoning-interpreting-bonhoeffers-ethics-of-lying-guilt-and-responsibility/F6700E04C1D59C4E0114E6FA4C766814Clifford J Green, “Pacifism and Tyrannicide: Bonhoeffer’s Christian Peace Ethic,” Society for the Study of Christian Ethics, Vol. 18 (3), 2005: 31-47. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0953946805058796

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