In this final conversation of our BC25 introductions, Stephen Roach, Corey Frey, and Dr. Marie Teilhard discuss the complexities of art that challenge conventional boundaries. They explore themes of heretical art, the distinction between shock art and risk art, and the importance of trust and exploration in the creative process. **Trigger Warning: This episode deals with sensitive subject matter such as self-harm and cutting. Follow Makers and Mystics on Instagram: @makersandmysticsConnect with Dr. TeilhardConnect with Corey FreySpecial Thanks to our patrons and friends who help us keep this train running. If you've been inspired by the Makers and Mystics podcast and would like to show the love, you can give a one-time donation here or become a monthly patron here. Send us a textSupport the showJoin the Makers and Mystics Creative Collective Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston Salem, NC.

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