011: The Dance We're Fighting For: Sabbatical and Resistance in DC A Conversation on Rest, Resistance, and Ministry in Turbulent Times Podcast: The LOAM Podcast - A Conversation on a More Beautiful Gospel Hosts: Anthony Parrott and Tonetta Landis-Aina Episode Length: ~35 minutes Recording Context: First full day of federal government shutdown in DC, amid ICE raids, mass firings, and political turmoil Episode Summary After a long summer break, Anthony and Tonetta reunite to discuss Tonetta's sabbatical experience and what it means to do ministry in Washington, DC during a time of unprecedented crisis. This honest conversation explores the tensions between rest and resistance, pastoral care and prophetic action, and joy and suffering. Tonetta shares what surprised her about stepping away from ministry, while both hosts grapple with how progressive faith communities can stay awake to injustice without succumbing to burnout. "During the darkest days of the AIDS crisis, we buried our friends in the morning, we protested in the afternoon, and we danced all night. And it was the dance that kept us in the fight because it was the dance we were fighting for." — Dan Savage Episode Highlights & Timestamps [00:00:00] Welcome Back & Sabbatical Energy Anthony and Tonetta reconnect after the summer break, with Tonetta bringing post-sabbatical energy and even downloading new apps. The conversation opens with the importance of listener feedback and sets the stage for discussing both sabbatical and ministry in crisis. [00:02:10] Sabbatical Interview Begins Anthony interviews Tonetta about her three-month sabbatical, exploring what she hoped for versus what actually happened. [00:03:22] What Were You Hoping For? Spending more time with her 3-year-old daughter before she started school Exploring the theme of "home" after multiple moves in five years Reading about place, gardens, and cultivating earth What didn't happen: organizing email and tech projects Discovery: Becoming very good at "puttering" - taking longer than expected to reach restful spaces The Bathrobe Moment: Anthony describes visiting Tonetta on a Sunday afternoon to find her in full sabbatical mode - in a bathrobe, completely at rest while her family attended church. [00:08:40] Chaos in the City, Rest at Home Did the intense summer in DC interrupt Tonetta's rest? Surprisingly, not much. She intentionally "holed up" in August knowing there would be plenty to do in September. As a Black queer woman in America, she notes that there's always suffering to be present to - but she won't survive if she stays constantly present to it. "I'm a black queer woman in America... when I have a chance to try to step away, I do. I won't survive if I just stay present to it consistently." On joy and resistance: Tonetta references Mary Oliver's poem "Don't Hesitate": "Joy is not made to be a crumb." When genuine joy happens, it is almost always appropriate to lean into it. [00:13:00] The Dance We Were Fighting For Discussion of Dan Savage's powerful quote about the AIDS crisis, and how it connects to T.S. Eliot's poetry about the Trinitarian dance. "At the still point of the turning world... at the still point, there the dance is." — T.S. Eliot, Four Quartets (Burnt Norton) Tonetta connects this to the idea that at the heart of the Trinity there is joy, love, and mutuality - and that the dance is what we're fighting for, the overflow of divine life. [00:14:41] What Did You Learn About Yourself as a Leader? Practicing Silence: Tonetta discovered the beauty of contemplative silence - not typical in the Pentecostal/charismatic spaces where she grew up. Learning to find God in silence at home, then recognizing that presence in unexpected quiet moments throughout the day. The Bible and Work: Tonetta realized how intertwined the Bible has become with her job. It's hard to approach Scripture in a lighthearted way when it's so associated with work. She started Lectio Divina but found herself wanting to "study" passages - which didn't feel good. A major takeaway: she needs to cultivate ways to disconnect the Bible from her work. Anthony's Lesson: Coming out of his own sabbatical, Anthony learned he has "two modes: uninvolved or in charge" - which is a problem. He had to learn to be okay with other people leading in ways he wouldn't, and that it won't hurt him. [00:18:09] What Did You Miss or Not Miss? The Surprise: Tonetta thought she'd visit synagogues, houses of worship, and connect with other church leaders. Instead, she just wanted to be home, pray, and listen to gospel music. Her family went to church while she "bathed in the silence." This gave her much more understanding and respect for congregants who want to step away from church sometimes. A congregant's response: "So now what you think is that we stay home to pray. I'm gonna just tell you that might not always be what we're doing, just to be clear." "My entire life I have been in gathered church spaces and I found it so refreshing to be out of those." [00:20:27] Doing Ministry in DC Right Now Tonetta pulls a card from Tricia Hersey's Rest Deck: "Rest is my foundation to build, invent, restore, and imagine the world I wanna see." The tension: How do you carry the rhythm of sabbatical while there's so much to be done? Government workers need support, the city is in crisis, and the needs feel endless. Justin Fung's Question: How do you stay awake but not alarmist? Action as Antidote: Sometimes action is the antidote to anxiety - not always perfect action, but right-sized action that fits what you're able to do. [00:23:15] Activists or Shepherds? Prophetic Action vs. Pastoral Care How does a progressive church discern between mobilizing for justice work and creating sanctuary for exhausted congregants? Tonetta's Answer: It's about rhythm and discernment. You need diversity in community - different kinds of leaders leaning in different directions. If you only have one voice or one approach, you'll be unbalanced. The Spectrum of Organizing: Every movement needs educators, disruptors, caregivers, writers, people who can lead chants, administrators - you can't all be doing the same thing. "We can't all be ears. We can't all be hands. We can't all be cooking our food over dung fires like Ezekiel." The Problem of Charismatic Leadership: When churches accidentally recreate themselves around one leader's gifts and style. The work of pastors is to intentionally pull together people who are smarter and more capable than them at things they aren't doing. [00:27:32] Spiritual Gifts and Progressive Churches Tonetta observes that progressive/liberationist churches may have "ceded some ground" when it comes to developing people's spiritual gifts. She advocates for: Marrying traditional spiritual gifts teaching with social justice frameworks Recognizing how gifts show up differently depending on privilege and social location Not being afraid of Pentecostal/charismatic practices like speaking in tongues Putting diverse leaders "up front" so people see their own gifts accepted Coming Out: Tonetta shares that she speaks in tongues, something she's "been threatened to be educated out of" but is reclaiming as important to who she is. [00:31:03] Streets vs. Desk: The Tension of Pastoral Work Tonetta wrestles with whether she should just be "in the streets" like Jeremiah or Ezekiel, doing disruptive prophetic acts - especially as someone whose inclination is toward the "world of ideas." Anthony's Response: All movements need people doing administrative work. If you're hosting a bus boycott, someone has to figure out how people will get to work. BUT you also need people in your life asking: "Are you using that as an excuse to not get on the streets?" [00:33:03] What Are You Watching/Reading? Tonetta: Practicing weekly points of whimsy. Currently reading about the spirituality of abolition and watching Craig of the Creek (Cartoon Network) - an 11-minute episode show about community that brings joy and explores theological connections. Anthony: All Creatures Great and Small (2020 PBS/Masterpiece remake) - a comfort watch about a veterinary practice in 1930s Yorkshire, England. "The moral quandaries of the show are like, do we tell the farmer their cow is going to die... the world's least important moral quandaries and it is a relief." Key Themes & Concepts Rest as Resistance Rest is not selfish - it's survival, especially for marginalized communities Joy is not a crumb - it's abundant and meant to be fully experienced Historical resistance movements sustained themselves through joy, dance, and community Action can be antidote to anxiety, but rest must be the foundation Ministry in Crisis How to stay awake without becoming alarmist Balancing prophetic action with pastoral care The necessity of diverse gifts and leadership styles Progressive churches need to reclaim spiritual gifts development Sabbatical Lessons The art of "puttering" - allowing rest to take as long as it needs Stepping away from gathered worship can be deeply restorative The Bible can become too associated with work for pastors Silence as spiritual practice (vs. charismatic noise) Resources & Links Books & Authors Mentioned Tricia Hersey - Rest is Resistance: A Manifesto and The Rest Deck (50 practices to resist grind culture) Mary Oliver - "Don't Hesitate" poem: "Joy is not made to be a crumb" T.S. Eliot - Four Quartets (especially "Burnt Norton" and "Little Gidding") Dan Savage - Quote on AIDS crisis, protest, and dancing Shows & Entertainment Craig of the Creek - Cartoon Network animated series about community and imagination (11-minute episodes) All Creatures Great and Small - PBS Masterpiece 2020 remake set in 1930s Yorkshire following veterinarians Theological Concepts Explored Rest as Resistance: Framework by Tricia Hersey/The Nap Ministry The Dance: Dan Savage on AIDS activism + T.S. Eliot on Trinitarian dance Joy as Liberation: Mary Oliver's vision of joy as abundant, not scarce Contemplative Silence: Finding God beyond charismatic/Pentecostal noise Spiritual Gifts: 1 Corinthians 12 - diversity of gifts in community Prophetic Tension: Ezekiel/Jeremiah energy vs. administrative pastoral work Quotable Moments "I'm a black queer woman in America... there's enough of that, that when I have a chance to try to step away, I do. I won't survive if I just stay present to it consistently." "Joy is not a crumb. When genuine joy happens, it is almost always appropriate to lean into it." "We buried our friends in the morning, we protested in the afternoon, and we danced all night. And it was the dance that kept us in the fight because it was the dance we were fighting for." "At the still point of the turning world... there the dance is... That is what we are fighting for. That is the overflow we're fighting for." "Rest is my foundation to build, invent, restore, and imagine the world I wanna see." "My entire life I have been in gathered church spaces and I found it so refreshing to be out of those." "We can't all be ears. We can't all be hands. We can't all be cooking our food over dung fires like Ezekiel." Discussion Questions How do you practice rest as resistance in your own life? What gets in the way? When have you experienced joy in the midst of difficult circumstances? How did that feel? What's the difference between staying "awake" to injustice and becoming "alarmist"? How does your community balance prophetic action and pastoral care? What are your spiritual gifts? How do they show up differently based on your social location? Do you have practices from charismatic/Pentecostal traditions that you've been "educated out of"? Should you reclaim them? Is there a rhythm between "being in the streets" and "doing administrative work" in your activism? Connect with The LOAM Podcast Instagram: @loam.fm Anthony Parrott: @pastorparrott (most platforms) Tonetta Landis-Aina: @tonetta.landis (Instagram) Feedback & Questions: [email protected] The LOAM Podcast is a conversation on a more beautiful gospel, exploring faith, justice, and spiritual formation in the modern world. "Until next time. Bye y'all."

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