In this episode, Melissa speaks with Phoene Cave, a registered music therapist, creative project manager, singer, trainer, and reflective practice supervisor who has spent two decades building social connections through music in some of the most challenging settings imaginable.
From working with female offenders in high-security prisons to pioneering Singing for Lung Health programs, Phoene brings a unique perspective on how music can create meaningful change. She's trained over 350 facilitators globally and is now bringing creative health toolkits to nursing students, helping healthcare workers discover the power of creativity for both self-care and patient care.
Phoene's philosophy of "creative compassionate disruption" informs everything she does, from her music therapy practice to her work with community musicians. In this conversation, she shares insights on establishing trust and safety, the importance of supervision and reflective practice, and why she believes compassion and empathy need to be balanced with healthy boundaries to prevent burnout.
Key Topics Discussed
Singing for Lung Health Training

How Phoene became a world specialist through learning on the job at Royal Brompton Hospital (2007)
The evolution from in-person to online training during the pandemic
Training over 350 facilitators globally, including respiratory nurses and physiotherapists
The importance of embodied practice and understanding respiratory issues

Music Therapy vs Community Music

The subtle distinctions between working as a music therapist and a community musician
How both can achieve similar outcomes, but with different levels of articulation and awareness
The power of music to shift narratives and create alternative experiences

Creative Health Training for Healthcare Workers

Providing creative health toolkits to nursing students at Roehampton University
The overwhelming soundscapes in hospitals and their impact on staff wellbeing
Teaching self-care through breath, movement, creative writing, and music
How creativity provides agency and encourages thinking outside the box

Supervision and Reflective Practice

Why supervision is vital for community musicians, especially those in challenging settings
The difference between music therapy supervision and reflective practice for community musicians
Compassion fatigue and the importance of boundaries

Values and Approach

Safety, trust, love, and presence as starting points with any group
The importance of physical space and "resonance" - being aware 360 degrees
Creative compassionate disruption as a guiding philosophy
Working in your "back body" - listening openly rather than being overly focused

Personal Journey

Training as a jazz improviser at Goldsmiths and overcoming challenges as a female vocalist
Multiple music therapy trainings creating an unusual and valuable perspective
The transition from performer to facilitator and finding fulfilment in giving others a voice
Discovering neurodivergence later in life

About Guest
Phoene Cave is a registered music therapist, creative project manager, singer, trainer, and reflective practice supervisor in the creative health field. She has spent two decades working with diverse communities in nurseries, schools, further and higher education, concert halls, social housing, care homes, hospitals, and a detention centre and prison.
Phoene is recognised as a world specialist in Singing for Lung Health, having trained over 350 facilitators globally since 2015. Her work bridges the worlds of music therapy, community music, and healthcare, bringing creative approaches to both patient care and healthcare worker wellbeing.
Her philosophy of "creative compassionate disruption" informs all her work, from facilitating sessions in challenging environments to training the next generation of creative health practitioners. She is currently working on recording an album revisiting songs from her earlier career as a jazz vocalist.
Connect with Guest

Website: www.phoenecave.co.uk
The Transit Collective: https://transitcollective.org/

Episode Highlights
[00:02:00] - The journey to becoming a Singing for Lung Health specialist - from answering an advertisement to training 350 facilitators globally
[00:06:15] - Learning on the job: the benefits and challenges of building the plane while flying it
[00:10:43] - What's the difference between music therapy and community music? A nuanced exploration
[00:15:18] - Establishing trust and safety: the starting point with any group, from prisoners to patients
[00:25:08] - Creative Health Toolkits for nursing students: transforming healthcare through creativity
[00:30:09] - The flow-on benefits when healthcare workers have creative tools for self-care
[00:35:04] - What is supervision in music therapy and why it matters for community musicians
[00:43:56] - Compassion fatigue: the danger of being a caring empath without boundaries
[00:46:25] - Why Phoene doesn't miss performing on stage (but is recording an album)
[00:49:50] - Advice to her 18-year-old self: "You have ADHD, and you're actually fine"

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