Europe and China remain deeply connected yet increasingly cautious of each other. In this second part of our conversation, intercultural leadership consultant Gabor Holch joins me to explore the political, economic and technological dimensions shaping EU–China relations today.We begin with technology as one of the sharpest areas of strategic friction — the Huawei controversy, Apple’s role, and the rise of competing ecosystems. From there, we look at Europe’s balancing act between the United States and China, and the contrast between business leaders who quietly maintain engagement and politicians who signal disengagement.The conversation also uncovers how mistrust is fuelled by restricted access, competing narratives and historical memory, while pointing to opportunities for cooperation in climate action, education, ageing societies and smart cities. Above all, we reflect on how empathy, curiosity and cultural agility can help bridge divides and foster trust between East and West.About the guestGabor Holch is an intercultural leadership consultant, coach, author and speaker with more than two decades of experience in East Asia. His latest book explores the rise and evolution of foreign executives in China:📚 Dragon Suit: The Golden Age of Expatriate Executives in China🌐 Learn more: http://www.eastwestleadership.com📖 Book page: http://www.dragonsuit.info/▶️ Explore more on Gabor Holch’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@GaborHolchWe also talk about the books Apple in China by Patrick McGee and House of Huawei by Eva DouAbout the podcastinSUBSTANTIA is produced in Geneva, Switzerland. It offers something most experts crave but rarely get, the chance to think out loud, connect knowledge to deeper philosophical or ethical terrain and explore ideas beyond headlines.

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